ADD Forums - Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder Support and Information Resources Community  

Go Back   ADD Forums - Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder Support and Information Resources Community > SCIENTIFIC DISCUSSIONS, RESEARCH, NEWS AND EVENTS > Scientific, Philosophical & Theoretical Discussions > Open Science & Philosophical Discussion
Register Blogs FAQ Chat Members List Calendar Donate Gallery Arcade Mark Forums Read

Open Science & Philosophical Discussion This forum is for open discussion, encouraging new and unconventional ways of thinking, welcoming posts in any format

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 04-13-19, 01:23 PM
Greyhound1's Avatar
Greyhound1 Greyhound1 is offline
Mind Racing Moderator
 

Join Date: May 2013
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 9,680
Thanks: 12,943
Thanked 16,343 Times in 7,817 Posts
Greyhound1 has a reputation beyond reputeGreyhound1 has a reputation beyond reputeGreyhound1 has a reputation beyond reputeGreyhound1 has a reputation beyond reputeGreyhound1 has a reputation beyond reputeGreyhound1 has a reputation beyond reputeGreyhound1 has a reputation beyond reputeGreyhound1 has a reputation beyond reputeGreyhound1 has a reputation beyond reputeGreyhound1 has a reputation beyond reputeGreyhound1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: At what age do kids grasp the concept of attention ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarahsweets View Post
I am curious as to why you feel you need to make a 4 year old pay better attention?
I don’t think they are trying to make a 4 year old pay better attention. They are questioning at what age an ADHD child has a theory of mind and self. At what age can they grasp ADHD and their condition, I think is the question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by userguide
I mean at what age he can grasp the idea that his mental states are more or less persistent/stable ? The concept of "rushing thoughts", "mental fog" ? where is the threshold of the ability to this adhd-specific introspection ?
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Greyhound1 For This Useful Post:
Fuzzy12 (04-13-19), userguide (04-15-19)
  #17  
Old 04-13-19, 03:51 PM
Fuzzy12's Avatar
Fuzzy12 Fuzzy12 is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 20,283
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 32,680
Thanked 30,768 Times in 14,149 Posts
Fuzzy12 has a reputation beyond reputeFuzzy12 has a reputation beyond reputeFuzzy12 has a reputation beyond reputeFuzzy12 has a reputation beyond reputeFuzzy12 has a reputation beyond reputeFuzzy12 has a reputation beyond reputeFuzzy12 has a reputation beyond reputeFuzzy12 has a reputation beyond reputeFuzzy12 has a reputation beyond reputeFuzzy12 has a reputation beyond reputeFuzzy12 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: At what age do kids grasp the concept of attention ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by userguide View Post
That's why I am thinking of a trick, a play that could make the child notice or realize he is in a different cognitive state and so we can explain it building on that xperience.

They say learning chess helps ppl apply their intellect more efficiently - at least that's what the players say - so let's think of a simplified chess easy enough for kids (or dogs ) to enjoy and realize often gratiication. Would that help ?


I wonder if biofeedback works this way - I've read it's effective in improing on some symptoms, but don't know whether it is due to a mechanistic changes (like when you just grow a bigger muscle without any mental input),

or due to the not isolated factor of the attention given to the child (that was the assumption in one study I have read),

or maybe - and that's what I hope for - the fact that the kid gains an extra dimension in his conscious self-reflection and is capable of applying that again in future.
Like Sarah asked. Why do you want to make the child aware of his lack of ability to focus? If the aim is to get him to pay more attention then just self awareness won't help much I think. We all know that our ability to focus sucks and we all know that this knowledge doesn't make us focus better. Do correct me if this is wrong for anyone with adhd.

If the aim is to focus then I think the most useful way to get him to focus is to change his environment ie create an environment where it is easier to focus or change the thing you want him to focus on to make it more interesting.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Fuzzy12 For This Useful Post:
Lunacie (04-13-19), userguide (04-15-19)
  #18  
Old 04-13-19, 03:52 PM
Fuzzy12's Avatar
Fuzzy12 Fuzzy12 is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 20,283
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 32,680
Thanked 30,768 Times in 14,149 Posts
Fuzzy12 has a reputation beyond reputeFuzzy12 has a reputation beyond reputeFuzzy12 has a reputation beyond reputeFuzzy12 has a reputation beyond reputeFuzzy12 has a reputation beyond reputeFuzzy12 has a reputation beyond reputeFuzzy12 has a reputation beyond reputeFuzzy12 has a reputation beyond reputeFuzzy12 has a reputation beyond reputeFuzzy12 has a reputation beyond reputeFuzzy12 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: At what age do kids grasp the concept of attention ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyhound1 View Post
I don’t think they are trying to make a 4 year old pay better attention. They are questioning at what age an ADHD child has a theory of mind and self. At what age can they grasp ADHD and their condition, I think is the question.
Oh sorry. I thought this was a practical question about an actual boy. As always I didn't check which board it's in..
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Fuzzy12 For This Useful Post:
Greyhound1 (04-13-19), userguide (04-15-19)
Sponsored Links
  #19  
Old 04-15-19, 08:17 AM
userguide userguide is offline
Contributor
 

Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: croatia
Posts: 281
Thanks: 604
Thanked 154 Times in 108 Posts
userguide is a jewel in the roughuserguide is a jewel in the roughuserguide is a jewel in the rough
Re: At what age do kids grasp the concept of attention ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyhound1 View Post
I don’t think they are trying to make a 4 year old pay better attention. They are questioning at what age an ADHD child has a theory of mind and self. At what age can they grasp ADHD and their condition, I think is the question.
Thanks Greyhound, that is exctly what I am trying to figure out

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy12 View Post
Like Sarah asked. Why do you want to make the child aware of his lack of ability to focus? If the aim is to get him to pay more attention then just self awareness won't help much I think. We all know that our ability to focus sucks and we all know that this knowledge doesn't make us focus better. Do correct me if this is wrong for anyone with adhd.
If your being aware of your adhd doesn't help, would you like to move back in time to when you didn't realize how your mind operated ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy12 View Post
Oh sorry. I thought this was a practical question about an actual boy. As always I didn't check which board it's in..
The question is theoretical, but I have a vey practical idea of how to apply it
__________________
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to userguide For This Useful Post:
Greyhound1 (04-16-19)
  #20  
Old 04-16-19, 12:04 PM
Fuzzy12's Avatar
Fuzzy12 Fuzzy12 is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 20,283
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 32,680
Thanked 30,768 Times in 14,149 Posts
Fuzzy12 has a reputation beyond reputeFuzzy12 has a reputation beyond reputeFuzzy12 has a reputation beyond reputeFuzzy12 has a reputation beyond reputeFuzzy12 has a reputation beyond reputeFuzzy12 has a reputation beyond reputeFuzzy12 has a reputation beyond reputeFuzzy12 has a reputation beyond reputeFuzzy12 has a reputation beyond reputeFuzzy12 has a reputation beyond reputeFuzzy12 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: At what age do kids grasp the concept of attention ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by userguide View Post
Thanks Greyhound, that is exctly what I am trying to figure out



If your being aware of your adhd doesn't help, would you like to move back in time to when you didn't realize how your mind operated ?



The question is theoretical, but I have a vey practical idea of how to apply it
Yes, because it could have helped me to apply more useful strategies (like changing my environment) and also, maybe my self esteem wouldn't have taken so many hits
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 04-27-19, 04:04 PM
userguide userguide is offline
Contributor
 

Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: croatia
Posts: 281
Thanks: 604
Thanked 154 Times in 108 Posts
userguide is a jewel in the roughuserguide is a jewel in the roughuserguide is a jewel in the rough
Re: At what age do kids grasp the concept of attention ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy12 View Post
Why do you want to make the child aware of his lack of ability to focus? If the aim is to get him to pay more attention then just self awareness won't help much I think. We all know that our ability to focus sucks and we all know that this knowledge doesn't make us focus better. Do correct me if this is wrong for anyone with adhd.
Quote:
Originally Posted by userguide View Post
If your being aware of your adhd doesn't help, would you like to move back in time to when you didn't realize how your mind operated ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy12 View Post
Yes, because it could have helped me to apply more useful strategies (like changing my environment) and also, maybe my self esteem wouldn't have taken so many hits
How would you do that without being aware of ur adhd ?
And that's good enough, but I am hoping for more.
Take music, for exaple - even though you can't read notes nor compose at 6, once you're introduced to rythm and beauty of an instrument, something opens up. It's not knowedge yet, but a perspective, a spark.
__________________
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to userguide For This Useful Post:
namazu (04-27-19)
  #22  
Old 04-27-19, 05:14 PM
namazu's Avatar
namazu namazu is online now
Contrapunctual Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Northern Hemisphere
Posts: 14,831
Thanks: 65,977
Thanked 21,418 Times in 10,804 Posts
namazu has a reputation beyond reputenamazu has a reputation beyond reputenamazu has a reputation beyond reputenamazu has a reputation beyond reputenamazu has a reputation beyond reputenamazu has a reputation beyond reputenamazu has a reputation beyond reputenamazu has a reputation beyond reputenamazu has a reputation beyond reputenamazu has a reputation beyond reputenamazu has a reputation beyond repute
Re: At what age do kids grasp the concept of attention ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by userguide View Post
Take music, for exaple - even though you can't read notes nor compose at 6, once you're introduced to rythm and beauty of an instrument, something opens up. It's not knowedge yet, but a perspective, a spark.
To follow this analogy, maybe ADHD is the executive-function/self-regulation equivalent of tone-deafness or poor rhythm.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to namazu For This Useful Post:
aeon (04-27-19), Lunacie (04-27-19), userguide (04-30-19)
  #23  
Old 04-27-19, 06:18 PM
aeon's Avatar
aeon aeon is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: The North...Minnesota!
Posts: 9,051
Thanks: 26,403
Thanked 14,983 Times in 6,694 Posts
aeon has a reputation beyond reputeaeon has a reputation beyond reputeaeon has a reputation beyond reputeaeon has a reputation beyond reputeaeon has a reputation beyond reputeaeon has a reputation beyond reputeaeon has a reputation beyond reputeaeon has a reputation beyond reputeaeon has a reputation beyond reputeaeon has a reputation beyond reputeaeon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: At what age do kids grasp the concept of attention ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by userguide View Post
Take music, for exaple - even though you can't read notes nor compose at 6, once you're introduced to rythm and beauty of an instrument, something opens up.
I could not compose, but I could read music by age 6, if at a beginner level.

The man who taught me asked me if I knew what a staff was and I said yes, it was something a wizard carried to cast spells.

So began my education.

Cheers,
Ian
__________________
@>~,~~'~ Voici mon secret. Il est très simple: on ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux.
“Well, look who I ran into,” crowed Coincidence. “Please,” flirted Fate, “this was meant to be.”
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to aeon For This Useful Post:
Lunacie (04-27-19), userguide (04-30-19)
  #24  
Old 04-27-19, 06:28 PM
Lunacie's Avatar
Lunacie Lunacie is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: south-central Kansas
Posts: 19,901
Thanks: 21,662
Thanked 26,912 Times in 12,558 Posts
Lunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: At what age do kids grasp the concept of attention ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by userguide View Post
Lol, I've never seen a cat spying, but thx for the tip - I should look into dog trainings


You want me to be more precise than I intended

Let's ask differently: How to show someone - say a Chinese cause I don't speak it - that he can be less ADhD than he usually is ? I understand that children up to some point do not recognize what they miss due to the lack of "theory of mind"




thx for the recommendation.

OK, I can give them smaller chunks, but I want them to "get" that they are capable of sustaining their attention for longer - how do I do that ?

I can't give them coffee or amph.

They feel anxiety cause they lack the proper attention span expected of them by the world - and that's the negative experience. How to show the positive one you get when you can suddenly do something, like when you're medicated ?
After coming back to this and hoping to see it from your perspective . . .
I think you just keep giving them opportunities to try new things and wait for
that moment when they connect with what they're doing.

I believe that people with adhd have a really big struggle trying to focus on
things that they don't connect with or really struggle to do. But if they feel
good about finding something that they can do and enjoy doing, it doesn't
cause so much anxiety that they really struggle with everything they try.

I expect when I was a child there were things I enjoyed doing and was able to
do without lots of anxiety and pressure, but I don't remember anyone telling
me about them. Seems like all I heard was when I couldn't do something well
or took longer to understand. So of course I had/have anxiety and low self-
esteem.

I read at least a couple of grade levels higher, was a very good spelller, but
the fact that I struggled with math seemed to be more important to teachers
and family. Ugh. My brother was 2 grades ahead of me and I rarely asked him
for help with math which he was good at because of his so=superior attitude.
But I would be his spell-check and grammar-check on his papers.
__________________
ADD is not a problem of knowing what to do; it is a problem of doing what you know.
-RUSSELL A. BARKLEY, PH.D.


As far as I know, there is nothing positive about ADHD that people can't have w out ADHD. ~ ADD me
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Lunacie For This Useful Post:
aeon (04-27-19), userguide (04-30-19)
  #25  
Old 05-09-19, 10:38 AM
Kunga Dorji's Avatar
Kunga Dorji Kunga Dorji is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,684
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: 1,608
Thanked 6,183 Times in 2,917 Posts
Kunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond repute
Re: At what age do kids grasp the concept of attention ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyhound1 View Post
I don’t think they are trying to make a 4 year old pay better attention. They are questioning at what age an ADHD child has a theory of mind and self. At what age can they grasp ADHD and their condition, I think is the question.
It is interesting.
Theory of Mind is a very abstract concept, and one that is embraced only within a few academic/ neuropsychiatric circles.
I think it is very hard for any child without a doctorate in neuropsychology to understand it.

I hope I'm not coming across too hard and stubborn. The reason for my comment is to say that we can't say "here is a child with no sense of "theory of mind", so we had better give him a dose of it".
So what would "a dose of theory of mind", look like?
__________________

Whenever you see a crowd all rushing in the same direction on any one issue, run in the opposite direction.

There is neither fun nor profit to be had in polishing the brass knobs on a bandwagon.
Nicholas Nasseem Taleb.


Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Kunga Dorji For This Useful Post:
aeon (05-09-19), Greyhound1 (05-09-19)
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What is attention? Kunga Dorji Open Science & Philosophical Discussion 1 04-25-18 06:51 PM
Attention Direction Deficiency DeClutter Inattentive ADD 25 03-04-18 04:02 AM
Article: Models of Attention Matt S. Science in the Media 9 11-30-07 01:22 AM
Understanding Attention Deficit Hyperactive Disorder among kids Andrew ADD News 0 01-02-04 10:32 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) 2003 - 2015 ADD Forums