ADD Forums - Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder Support and Information Resources Community  

Go Back   ADD Forums - Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder Support and Information Resources Community > SCIENTIFIC DISCUSSIONS, RESEARCH, NEWS AND EVENTS > Scientific, Philosophical & Theoretical Discussions > Open Science & Philosophical Discussion
Register Blogs FAQ Chat Members List Calendar Donate Gallery Arcade Mark Forums Read

Open Science & Philosophical Discussion This forum is for open discussion, encouraging new and unconventional ways of thinking, welcoming posts in any format

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #76  
Old 06-07-19, 02:15 PM
SB_UK SB_UK is offline
 
 

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: -
Posts: 21,089
Blog Entries: 20
Thanks: 6,171
Thanked 6,502 Times in 4,746 Posts
SB_UK has disabled reputation
Re: I Have to Leave the Extreme Diets to Others...But I Watch with Interest

Quote:
Originally Posted by 20thcenturyfox View Post
Although I was the original paleo kid--born liking every kind of meat and fish--but hating most everything else--milk, strawberries, apple juice and spaghetti--I have come round to like just about everything. Balance and moderation are where I feel I must put my limited energy these days, so I have to leave the extreme diets to others.

But I never bought into the cholesterol phobia, saying my English ancestors had thrived (yes, a few lived to be 100 even in the 1700's!) on beef, bacon and butter, but no one had heart disease till after WWII. And I am horrified by the spectacular success of fat-, sugar-, and flour-laden fast foods in recent years. I stick to my whole grains and veggies, along with meat, fish, eggs, dairy, legumes, nuts, spices and some fruit and also wonder where we are headed as a society.

So I have no trouble believing that ketogenic diets may be an important--even life-saving-- prescription for those who have overdosed on carbs and spoiled the metabolic checks and balances that originally made humans a true multi-fuel animal that can withstand stress and deprivation of many different kinds and still venture forth, learn, thrive and reproduce.

Do keep us posted on your progress, SB, not just in what you are eating but in the health effects you are seeing. Variety of experience is something we can all learn from.
Evolution would have made our metabolic needs simple.

I'm finding it hard to reject the idea of simple fat or simple soluble fibre or both.

So vegan ketosis + BHB/MCT-8

Konjac noodle + oil
Salad + oil
low GI Veggies + oil
kimchi + tree nuts
__________________
ADHD understood - simple matter of defining purpose (morality) of mind.
Acquisition of quality (through learning proper) NOT money -centric.
Therefore we can not pay attention to pointless pursuits geared towards money/power acquisition.
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 06-07-19, 02:26 PM
SB_UK SB_UK is offline
 
 

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: -
Posts: 21,089
Blog Entries: 20
Thanks: 6,171
Thanked 6,502 Times in 4,746 Posts
SB_UK has disabled reputation
Re: A complete Solution to Disease/Disorder/Suffering

This says it all.
https://www.mdpi.com/2076-3921/7/5/63/htm


'get wiser* not just older'

*spontaneous change in appetite preference with wisdom
__________________
ADHD understood - simple matter of defining purpose (morality) of mind.
Acquisition of quality (through learning proper) NOT money -centric.
Therefore we can not pay attention to pointless pursuits geared towards money/power acquisition.
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 06-08-19, 12:25 AM
SB_UK SB_UK is offline
 
 

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: -
Posts: 21,089
Blog Entries: 20
Thanks: 6,171
Thanked 6,502 Times in 4,746 Posts
SB_UK has disabled reputation
Re: I Have to Leave the Extreme Diets to Others...But I Watch with Interest

EDITED



Quote:
Originally Posted by _ View Post
Evolution would have made our metabolic needs simple.

I'm finding it hard to reject the idea of simple fat or simple soluble fibre or both.

So vegan ketosis + BHB/MCT-8 x 2 (4am, 8am, 12pm (MCT only))


+ coffee

Mainstay - very low in protein


Konjac noodle + chill- garli- infused olive oil
Salad + oil (hemp seed) + apple cider vinegar
low GI Veggies + oil (hemp seed) + apple cider vinegar
kimchi + tree nuts
Portable snacks - low levels to keep protein down to a very low level
Hemp seed + Hemp oil
Linseed + Hemp oil
Tree nuts / Sunflower Seeds (soaked)

Occasional departures from raw veganism ^^^ only in a full fat cream cheese (+ one 3g per slice bread max daily) and a cold-pressed rapeseed oil mayo (+ salad). Can easily eliminate these.

The store bought linseed and hempseed isn't soaked, dehydrated - so may need to eliminate. Not sure.

Not sure whether low levels of long chain sat fat should be eliminated in their entirety - maybe so.
__________________
ADHD understood - simple matter of defining purpose (morality) of mind.
Acquisition of quality (through learning proper) NOT money -centric.
Therefore we can not pay attention to pointless pursuits geared towards money/power acquisition.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #79  
Old 06-08-19, 12:28 AM
SB_UK SB_UK is offline
 
 

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: -
Posts: 21,089
Blog Entries: 20
Thanks: 6,171
Thanked 6,502 Times in 4,746 Posts
SB_UK has disabled reputation
Re: A complete Solution to Disease/Disorder/Suffering

BHB is a magic molecule.
__________________
ADHD understood - simple matter of defining purpose (morality) of mind.
Acquisition of quality (through learning proper) NOT money -centric.
Therefore we can not pay attention to pointless pursuits geared towards money/power acquisition.
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 06-09-19, 06:15 AM
tudorose's Avatar
tudorose tudorose is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Oz
Posts: 4,331
Thanks: 5,259
Thanked 5,585 Times in 2,411 Posts
tudorose has a reputation beyond reputetudorose has a reputation beyond reputetudorose has a reputation beyond reputetudorose has a reputation beyond reputetudorose has a reputation beyond reputetudorose has a reputation beyond reputetudorose has a reputation beyond reputetudorose has a reputation beyond reputetudorose has a reputation beyond reputetudorose has a reputation beyond reputetudorose has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A complete Solution to Disease/Disorder/Suffering

Quote:
Originally Posted by SB_UK View Post
BHB is a magic molecule.
Where did you source yours from. Having trouble working out what is the true stuff and what is fillers
__________________
Half human, Half alien
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to tudorose For This Useful Post:
SB_UK (06-09-19)
  #81  
Old 06-09-19, 12:46 PM
SB_UK SB_UK is offline
 
 

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: -
Posts: 21,089
Blog Entries: 20
Thanks: 6,171
Thanked 6,502 Times in 4,746 Posts
SB_UK has disabled reputation
Re: A complete Solution to Disease/Disorder/Suffering

peak supps (plain) + supp place (cocoa)
Probably going to stick to peak supps and add my own cocoa powder
__________________
ADHD understood - simple matter of defining purpose (morality) of mind.
Acquisition of quality (through learning proper) NOT money -centric.
Therefore we can not pay attention to pointless pursuits geared towards money/power acquisition.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to SB_UK For This Useful Post:
tudorose (06-09-19)
  #82  
Old 06-09-19, 01:19 PM
SB_UK SB_UK is offline
 
 

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: -
Posts: 21,089
Blog Entries: 20
Thanks: 6,171
Thanked 6,502 Times in 4,746 Posts
SB_UK has disabled reputation
Re: A complete Solution to Disease/Disorder/Suffering

Quote:
Originally Posted by tudorose View Post
Where did you source yours from. Having trouble working out what is the true stuff and what is fillers
Can't vouch for anything other than they taste the same and appear to work.
__________________
ADHD understood - simple matter of defining purpose (morality) of mind.
Acquisition of quality (through learning proper) NOT money -centric.
Therefore we can not pay attention to pointless pursuits geared towards money/power acquisition.
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 08-25-19, 05:03 AM
tudorose's Avatar
tudorose tudorose is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Oz
Posts: 4,331
Thanks: 5,259
Thanked 5,585 Times in 2,411 Posts
tudorose has a reputation beyond reputetudorose has a reputation beyond reputetudorose has a reputation beyond reputetudorose has a reputation beyond reputetudorose has a reputation beyond reputetudorose has a reputation beyond reputetudorose has a reputation beyond reputetudorose has a reputation beyond reputetudorose has a reputation beyond reputetudorose has a reputation beyond reputetudorose has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A complete Solution to Disease/Disorder/Suffering

Do we need BHB supplementation if we can manufacture it ourselves by eating insoluble fibre?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Metagenics.com Blog Post, 29 Oct 2018
Adding Fiber to a Ketogenic Diet

When following a ketogenic diet, it is not uncommon for people to neglect eating quality sources of fiber in an effort to avoid any carbohydrate intake. There is a chance this can lead to constipation, poor digestion, and a lack of certain vitamins and minerals.
What is fiber?

Dietary fiber is the indigestible plant material that passes through our digestive system either completely undigested, or broken down via microbial fermentation, in the large intestine.1 Fiber aids in the removal of waste via the colon and is important for maintaining healthy digestion. Fiber is categorized as either soluble or insoluble, and each is digested differently.

Soluble fiber: Soluble fiber dissolves in liquids and becomes gel-like in the digestive tract.1 It slows digestion, increases satiety, and when consumed with carbohydrates can slow intestinal absorption and can help minimize increases in postprandial blood glucose.2

Soluble fiber is predominantly found in fruits and legumes, which are not advised on a ketogenic diet, and small amounts are found in vegetables.3 Soluble fiber ingredients are also commonly found in low-carb packaged foods, such as isomalto-olidosaccharides (IMOs) and soluble corn fiber.

Insoluble fiber: Insoluble fiber does not dissolve like soluble fiber does. This type of fiber stays intact and is responsible for what people refer to as “roughage” when speaking of fiber. This type of fiber aids in digestion and promotes elimination of waste by the colon.4

Insoluble fiber is the predominant type of fiber found in vegetables, especially the low-carb, nonstarchy options that are fitting for a ketogenic diet.
Taking in fiber on a ketogenic diet

Following a ketogenic diet is easy when you stick to fatty meats, eggs, oils, and full-fat dairy. However, by a strict intake of these foods, there is very little consumption of whole-food fiber in addition to a lack of micronutrient intake. Moreover, low-carb, “keto-friendly” packaged foods, although providing ease of entry into a ketogenic lifestyle, are typically filled with soluble fibers. These soluble fibers contribute toward the majority of the daily carbohydrate count and lead to a lack of insoluble fiber in the diet. Consequently, due to the attempt to meet daily macronutrient ratios, there is a tendency to neglect all vegetables, even low-carb options, and thus losing out on insoluble fiber intake. A well-formulated ketogenic diet should not be void of fiber; some may even argue it provides more fiber than other diets. This is because a well-formulated ketogenic diet includes regular amounts of low-carb vegetables on a daily basis, along with quality sources of fats and protein.

Intriguingly, the fermentation process of insoluble fiber during digestion can also contribute to ketogenesis (i.e. the production of ketones). Fiber is broken down by the gut microbiome into short-chain fatty acids, such as butyrate,5 a molecule that is very structurally similar to the ketone body, beta-hydroxybutyrate. Subsequently, butyrate can be converted to beta-hydroxybutyrate and has been shown to increase blood ketone levels in humans.6
Fiber sources on a well-formulated ketogenic diet

Low-carbohydrate fibrous whole foods, such as those listed below, are recommended as part of a well-formulated ketogenic diet to allow for entering and/or sustaining nutritional ketosis (defined as an elevation of beta-hydroxybutyrate (BHB) above 0.5 mmol/L). Consider adding these examples to your diet:†

Vegetables:

All leafy greens
Lettuce
Cruciferous vegetables (e.g. broccoli, cauliflower, Brussels sprouts, cabbage, kale)
Celery
Zucchini
Cucumber
Bok choy
Artichoke

Fruits:

Avocado
Tomato
Low-sugar berries (e.g. wild blueberries)

Nuts & seeds

Chia seeds
Flax seed
Hemp seeds
Almonds
Walnuts

†Always consider carbohydrate content in examples above and portion accordingly.
Tips for consuming more fiber on a ketogenic diet:
Salads

This may be an obvious solution to a lack of insoluble fiber in the diet, and you may even be experiencing flashbacks from traumatic dieting memories you just can’t shake. However, a ketogenic salad should be an exception to this bias. If you have ever had a good salad, you know salads are underrated; they only become boring when you take away the fat—not an issue on a ketogenic diet. Gone are the days when you ask for “dressing on the side.” When you find a high-fat dressing you enjoy, you will begin to enjoy your salads!

Recommended ingredients: leafy greens (all types), avocado, hemp seeds, boiled eggs, fatty cuts of beef, chicken thighs, fatty fish, olives, nuts & seeds, artichoke hearts, high-quality oils, high-fat dressings (see below)
Sautéed & roasted vegetables

While from a glycemic standpoint there is an advantage to eating vegetables raw (due harder access to carbohydrates stored inside plant cells), sometimes eating cooked vegetables can bring a sense of comfort, and could translate to better compliance to a ketogenic diet. The best oils for cooking that can handle heat contain saturated and monounsaturated fats such as butter, ghee, avocado oil, extra-virgin olive oil, MCT oil, and coconut oil. Use of fresh or dried herbs and spices such as garlic, parsley, cumin, chili, oregano, paprika, rosemary, coriander, etc. will add additional flavors.

Recommended ingredients for sautéing: spinach, onion, mushrooms, kale, zucchini, cabbage, Bok choy

Recommended ingredients for roasting: Brussels sprouts, broccoli, cauliflower, onion, mushrooms, celery (don’t knock it ’til you try it!)
Chia pudding

Yes, pudding! Ketogenic chia puddings are extremely easy, cheap, and convenient to make and, most importantly, are full of fiber. The carbohydrate content of chia seeds is primarily fiber, 86% to be exact, and most of it is insoluble fiber! When chia seeds are soaked overnight, they absorb the liquid and take on a pudding-like consistency. Spruce up the chia puddings with some of the recommended ingredients below to avoid a flavorless gel and make sure to include healthy fats!

Recommended ingredients: chia seeds, flax seeds, hemp seeds, low-carb nuts/nut butters, sugar-free chocolate chips, cocoa powder, cinnamon, vanilla extract, MCT oil/powder, full-fat coconut cream, coconut butter, shredded coconut, unsweetened nut-milks, coconut oil, sea salt, sugar-free/low-carb protein powders
Dressings & dips

Dressings and dips are like smoothies in that you can easily sneak ingredients into them. Adding fiber into dressings and dips makes food taste better, as well as being an easy way to get in those healthy fats! Use a blender to make these, and include dressings and dips with any savory snack or meal!

Recommended ingredients: spinach, kale, steamed cauliflower, raw or steamed zucchini, high-quality oils, tahini, herbs & spices, garlic, lemon juice, apple cider vinegar, full-fat yogurt (or dairy-free alternative), MCT oil/powder, avocado oil- or olive oil-based mayonnaise

Resources:

Lattimer JM et al. Effects of Dietary Fiber and Its Components on Metabolic Health. Nutrients. 2010;2(12):1266-1289.
Chutkan R et al. Viscous versus nonviscous soluble fiber supplements: Mechanisms and evidence for fiber-specific health benefits. Am Acad Nurse Practitioners. 2012;24:476-487.
https://carleton.ca/healthy-workplac...uble-fibre.pdf. Accessed 10/5/18.
Lattimer JM et al. Effects of Dietary Fiber and Its Components on Metabolism. 2010;12:1266-1268.
Slavin J. Fiber and Prebiotics: Mechanisms and Health Benefits. 2013;5:1417-1435.
St-Pierre V et al. Butyrate is more ketogenic than leucine or octanoate-monoacylglycerol in healthy adult humans. J Functional Foods. 2017;32:170-275.

Submitted by the Metagenics Marketing Team
__________________
Half human, Half alien

Last edited by namazu; 08-25-19 at 11:41 AM.. Reason: Removed link to commercial website (prohibited), per ADDF guidelines; replaced w/text of post.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to tudorose For This Useful Post:
SB_UK (09-05-19)
  #84  
Old 09-04-19, 02:54 PM
SB_UK SB_UK is offline
 
 

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: -
Posts: 21,089
Blog Entries: 20
Thanks: 6,171
Thanked 6,502 Times in 4,746 Posts
SB_UK has disabled reputation
Re: A complete Solution to Disease/Disorder/Suffering

I've been looking for this. Have a decent source ?
Quote:
"Subsequently, butyrate can be converted to beta-hydroxybutyrate"
__________________
ADHD understood - simple matter of defining purpose (morality) of mind.
Acquisition of quality (through learning proper) NOT money -centric.
Therefore we can not pay attention to pointless pursuits geared towards money/power acquisition.
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 09-04-19, 03:09 PM
SB_UK SB_UK is offline
 
 

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: -
Posts: 21,089
Blog Entries: 20
Thanks: 6,171
Thanked 6,502 Times in 4,746 Posts
SB_UK has disabled reputation
Re: A complete Solution to Disease/Disorder/Suffering

Good link above - just add that I'd eliminate any of the foods mentioned with a long chain saturated fat. The animal foods + coconut are lost.
__________________
ADHD understood - simple matter of defining purpose (morality) of mind.
Acquisition of quality (through learning proper) NOT money -centric.
Therefore we can not pay attention to pointless pursuits geared towards money/power acquisition.
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 09-04-19, 03:10 PM
SB_UK SB_UK is offline
 
 

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: -
Posts: 21,089
Blog Entries: 20
Thanks: 6,171
Thanked 6,502 Times in 4,746 Posts
SB_UK has disabled reputation
Re: A complete Solution to Disease/Disorder/Suffering

Pretty sure that LCT sat fats trigger inflammation.

Exactly this idea.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30590569

LCT sat fat wants to sit alongside LPS.
__________________
ADHD understood - simple matter of defining purpose (morality) of mind.
Acquisition of quality (through learning proper) NOT money -centric.
Therefore we can not pay attention to pointless pursuits geared towards money/power acquisition.
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 09-05-19, 03:28 AM
tudorose's Avatar
tudorose tudorose is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Oz
Posts: 4,331
Thanks: 5,259
Thanked 5,585 Times in 2,411 Posts
tudorose has a reputation beyond reputetudorose has a reputation beyond reputetudorose has a reputation beyond reputetudorose has a reputation beyond reputetudorose has a reputation beyond reputetudorose has a reputation beyond reputetudorose has a reputation beyond reputetudorose has a reputation beyond reputetudorose has a reputation beyond reputetudorose has a reputation beyond reputetudorose has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A complete Solution to Disease/Disorder/Suffering

Quote:
Originally Posted by SB_UK View Post
Pretty sure that LCT sat fats trigger inflammation.

Exactly this idea.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30590569

LCT sat fat wants to sit alongside LPS.
The single biggest inflammation trigger for me is spinach. I have less reaction to animal sources than plant ones. I wish I didn't as I love vegetables and seeds.

BUT with meat is has to be grass fed organic otherwise it is terribly inflammatory. You need to know the source.
__________________
Half human, Half alien
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 09-05-19, 12:50 PM
SB_UK SB_UK is offline
 
 

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: -
Posts: 21,089
Blog Entries: 20
Thanks: 6,171
Thanked 6,502 Times in 4,746 Posts
SB_UK has disabled reputation
Re: A complete Solution to Disease/Disorder/Suffering

I can't eat spinach - hurts my teeth ?? - but can manage the baby leaves.
The thing with animal products is that we just can't generate enough for the planet, they're inefficient calorie-wise, huge contributors to climate change and the animals don't really want to die.

I had a severe asthmatic attack on coconut oil - when I realised it was sat fat.
The path of meat vs veggie vs vegan isn't right.

It's more a particular profile of ketosis (fasting mimic) vs 'fed state' - exercise is absolutely critical.

Fasting - muscle loss. Ketosis + ramping up exercise - muscle gain.

Your link is perfect I think minus animal products/minus sat fat and with certain special forms of treatment - soaking of nuts and seeds, sprouting.
__________________
ADHD understood - simple matter of defining purpose (morality) of mind.
Acquisition of quality (through learning proper) NOT money -centric.
Therefore we can not pay attention to pointless pursuits geared towards money/power acquisition.
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 09-05-19, 12:51 PM
SB_UK SB_UK is offline
 
 

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: -
Posts: 21,089
Blog Entries: 20
Thanks: 6,171
Thanked 6,502 Times in 4,746 Posts
SB_UK has disabled reputation
Re: A complete Solution to Disease/Disorder/Suffering

I'm suggesting a certain form of vegan ketosis with steadily increasing exercise.

A physical activity x diet interaction - which is essential for health. Neither can do it alone.
__________________
ADHD understood - simple matter of defining purpose (morality) of mind.
Acquisition of quality (through learning proper) NOT money -centric.
Therefore we can not pay attention to pointless pursuits geared towards money/power acquisition.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to SB_UK For This Useful Post:
tudorose (09-08-19)
  #90  
Old 09-05-19, 12:57 PM
SB_UK SB_UK is offline
 
 

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: -
Posts: 21,089
Blog Entries: 20
Thanks: 6,171
Thanked 6,502 Times in 4,746 Posts
SB_UK has disabled reputation
Re: A complete Solution to Disease/Disorder/Suffering

A physical activity x diet x mental state (eustress) interaction completes it.

Quote:
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2019 Mar 1;104(3):934-946
sooo our Clinical medicine journal may be completed by adding two words Endocrinology and Metabolism to the first (which happens to be the last) page; perhaps the cover might suffice - as it's pleasing to consider oneself to have read a book without having been required to lift it from the shelf.
__________________
ADHD understood - simple matter of defining purpose (morality) of mind.
Acquisition of quality (through learning proper) NOT money -centric.
Therefore we can not pay attention to pointless pursuits geared towards money/power acquisition.

Last edited by SB_UK; 09-05-19 at 01:11 PM..
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (0 members and 2 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The backwards nature of education and it's solution InvitroCanibal Adult Education 1 07-06-14 09:09 AM
Don't know how to complete this InvitroCanibal Creative Writing 0 03-05-14 06:14 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) 2003 - 2015 ADD Forums