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Old 08-04-20, 09:37 PM
Drogheda98 Drogheda98 is offline
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understanding the self.

Hello all, just an update about what has been happening on a personal level, epiphany after epiphany, I've been coming to these boards for a while and you all have helped me in ways I can't really recall cause of the fog of depression, so today I want to try to give back. so lets talk about the self, what it is, and how we can find it and specifically that of the ego and it's structure. and I also want to say, some of what I will say might be trivial, however my iq is 140, I had to do the same, figure out the bear basics so I'm giving that information to the people of the boards, we do so to cure any fragmentation or "otherness" of the self or ourselves "cause self is = 1 person, there are many selves reading the boards at one time or another"

I'll start with inner space as apposed to ambient space. inner space is when we dream at night and try to recall the dream in our head during the day, the pictures, or inner movie we can try to describe either to ourselves or to others, that space is called inner space, it is in our head and our head alone, to contrast, ambient space is the world outside of our head we can perceive with sense impressions through our biological eyes. the field of vision where we see objects and people and places and things, I'm referring to things as objects like manmade artifacts, a computer would be a thing, it is a cultural artifact because it was made in the times we currently live in.

now lets take the concept of a computer and visualize it(computer, where the it is the refrent or pointer to the computer in our memory), visualization is the process just like pulling into consciousnesses the dream we had the night before. we know a computer is external of us, but we can see a computer if we pull it(computer) into consciousness with our eyes closed, I believe from my own experience doing as such with our eyes closed is a good way not to mix up external with internal so we can differentiate the two without error. the common saying for differentiation is "two different things"

the it, as much as it relates to consciousness and not things in external "the pen it is over their" is to quote Freud "the Id", otherwise known as the unconscious part of the mind, the relationship between consciousness and the unconscious is we pull into consciousness from somewhere, the counterpart would be the unconscious. our muscle memory for example, is unconscious, we usually don't actively think "moving arm" even though at somepoint we probably did.

the internal workings is called internal geometry, the theater of the mind or imagination, because we know what a cube looks like in external reality, we can imagine a cube inside our mind.

now I will describe the difference or contrast between internal and external and neurosis which I believe anyway and I could be wrong, what ADHD actually is.

"here" is a location, the typing on the screen is a referent point for what is internal. the self is represented as "in here", not the screen I'm typing on, we kind of have to say that outloud with our own ego statement to get the point across. "out theer" are things and people and places external to us, from my own point of veiw, the television screen I'm typing on is "out there", external, the same would apply to each of you. when we understand the concept of the self as being "in here" by applying our own ego statment we start to understand containment of the self, or self as container or vessel, where the when containment of the self is understood we understand that the "here" is also a reference to space and time, here and now. the "self" occupies a space in space but does not occupy a space outside of it, the space outside of the self is called ambient space, or the stuff we see through to get sensory impressions of objects "the thing over there is yell, the thing over there is blue, the thing over there has width and an oval shape", those are examples of sense impressions from external reality

I will continue in the reply as to not overload
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Old 08-04-20, 11:31 PM
Drogheda98 Drogheda98 is offline
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Re: understanding the self.

next I will speak of the mirror, that of the ego, and the "me not me" distinction"

when we look in the mirror we see ourselves, we see "the Me" reflected back at us and notice it is just a mirror doing the reflecting and the self is the 3dimensional fleshy one doing the looking. 3 dimensions at first. we see "that self, that self" as the ego, or body self. to quote Freud again "the ego is a body centered ego", just how we take sense impressions with our eyes of external stimuli "the thing over there is yellow" we do the same with the ego body such as " the feeling of warmth, the feeling of cold, the feeling of excitement etc arise from whiten us the taste of a cooked meal", and we derive tastes in other things such as "taste in music" or "the man or woman is coldhearted" we see somebody do something bad, the man or woman is warmhearted" when we see someone do something good, these observations derived from these bodily ego sense impressions or sense of self of our own foundation. the self itself is known as itself. when we look out into the world we see "not me's" so when I say "my initials are jim" everybody else reading the thread knows that "jim" is a "not me" cause we can only see ourselves in a mirror. thus I'm the other to the people reading the thread, however from my pov, the others reading the thread are the other.

ToM or Theory of Mind. I think we all know how to fold variables of language such as Theory of mind stands for ToM, folding of variables like that is known as mnemonic memory and is, atleast to my mind, the adhd super power. sense people born with adhd are usually very very good with abstraction and variables because are left brain is usually dominate for some time.

ToM is first based with what we see in the mirror, we see ourselves smiling when we are happy, frown when we are sad, even though these are basic emotions our emotions will rapidly get more complex derentiated from a complex. mixing emotions like a painter would mix color for a painting, that is just a metaphor. when we see ourselves being happy or sad we can then turn to other people and see a small on their face with a smile or a frown and know "they must be experiencing the same emotional state", where the word "they" denotes third person, however the word "they" can also mean things, ideas, meaning, feelings "these feelings they feel good", ToM, or a simple explination, is self prespective taking and other perspective taking via our experience in the world. the world is differentiated from the earth because the world is stuff like "the world of idea's" the world of people places and things, the earth is what we all line on and in. ToM is also when we know other people can be thinking of us, just like we can be thinking of other people, the basis of riciprocity.

Inner Objects and Object permanence: just like when we pull dreams into consciousness we can do as such with people, places, and things that are important to us. these inner images contrasted by the outer typing are called inner objects, usually it's family, friends, places we have been to. however like I'm doing now I'm typing about "family, friends, places" which we all know of based on our own subjective experience and match the words with our inner Constreul and we do as such with all words said and typed by each of us. thus when I say "family" we all know exactly what that is based on our own experience of being in a family, even though our family members our different. Object permanence is seeing both the good and bad in both ourselves, our parents(usually our parents first) and everybody and everything else at the same time, a thought which has object permanence in it is " will(as in the faculty contained in all of us) is good but power over others is bad" and we see our parents and ourselves and everybody else for who everybody really is, just Human Beings, prone to error, and prone to doing good, and everything in between. with both weaknesses and strengths. Object permenence is when we know those people and places and things exist outside of us even if we close our eyes, or in the next room, anywhere out "there"

Grasping: when we use our hands to grasp a literal thing, we can abstract that grasping into our hearts mind, thus we can hold dear things, people, places to ourselves, our hearts and minds. like Austin, he'll live in my heart forever

Constructs: physical states in the world are Constructs, they are helpfull for figuring out time and place, or where the self is. the state of Arkansas IS a construct, the Country of america IS a Construct, I'm using my own point of refrence though you all can do the same, a Construct is an internal thing that is externalized. I feel this is important for each of us to realize as to minimize thus not to Project our own internal stuff(mental faculties contained in us) onto others. a construct is an external boundary that is applied to the earth we all live on. and in.

the concept of Volume and Concept. we think in forms of concepts and mental construel. such as the concept of "game" can bring with it "baseball, football, basketball, soccer etc" thus "game" is a higher teird thought as the other games bellow the hierarchy "game", we think as such to organized our thoughts and then abstract that notion to other hierarchies " Animals" for instance. the notion of "filling in" is to bring higher resolution thought or more information to a thought. the "filling in" thought is concertized in the way of each of us are a container or vessel such as "he does or does not contain the information for the job" (I'm thinking about trump sorry), where the word HE or SHE is third person from The Self, if of you talked about me you would term me he or "jim himself", if I talked about any of you I would term "he or she"

reflexivity: sense ego is body first we all have knees and elbows that have reflexes. when I or anybody else say you to any of you you rexlevily say "ego"

Boundaries: Ego is first and formost about our own boundaries, the ego can first be construed or understood as the "line in the sand maker" our boundaries constitute who we are, Our likes, dislikes, beleifes both in self, others, higher powers, things, idea's and so on. those boundaries differentiate us from other people, and especially how we read other or understand others Ego statements are saying. I would say the first Ego boundary is simply our voice, what we sound like, we can differentiate ourselves from others based on our voice, how we physically look second, our likes and dislikes and beleifes etc. an example I like progressive melodic music, the topic would be music, and to differentiate as to not ECHO my ego you would say your like in music is with your ego whoever is reading thus far, the reason I'm asking any of you to do that is to establish a boundary or line in a sand for yourselves so you know how this works, because a boundary, just 1 boundary, is critical for figuring out the self and organizing the ego structure of our mind and toss away the dyatonic ego structure of the mind, because the dyatonic ego strucutre is the need for others approval, the need for attention from others, the need to form our own thoughts from others, getting rid of dissociation from ourselves, getting rid of anxiety and having hope for the future, I'm talking about being our Authentic True Selves.

I will continue the explanation in the reply
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Old 08-05-20, 02:17 AM
Drogheda98 Drogheda98 is offline
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Re: understanding the self.

Time: mental time travel and prospect taking.

when we look in the mirror we see our reflection looking back at us knowing we are the "fleshy 3d one" and the mirror is just a 2d projection of ourselves. however the notion of "the reflection looking back at us" gives new meaning to the word "back" as not only a physical place on the body. we can then "look back" or reflect on the past. such as what we might have looked like in the mirror when we where young, ten years ago, and today, recall is bringing the past into the light of consciousness, our personal past, I will explain 4d time, the 4th dimension is indeed time, we know the present moment as "in the now" but when we look back via reflecting on the past we add the element of flowing through time in a back manner, and just how we have a back, we have a front, we can then prospect the future. just like "game" is to baseball and football "time" is to Present, Past, and Future. and sense we are vessels and can see inwardly such as "think of the game baseball" a thought of a game watched IN THE PAST might come to mind, thus when we remember we automatically remember something that has happend in the past, we can take the same abstraction and use it to prospect the future, our personal future, in all it's regards, we can see places we want to go, see jobs we would want to to be a part of, we can also see places we would want to avoid, we can see the kind of person we would want to become, the we choose those (which are our ideals) and start using a calendar to chart our own progress going foward in life. prospect making is not certainty, but shapes our behaviors going forwards towards the future think of prospect taking as "theirs Gold in them their mountains" prospect taking is a synthesis of our personal boundaries based on the present and what we can recall from the past and a better future for not only ourselves, but others as well (and when I say others, I'm not meaning me from any of your first person perspective but the others you hold dear in your lives). Direction in our lives means the direction we navigate ourselves towards a brighter future. when we perspective take and notice the other sad we can do things for them to make them not sad for instance, and that is just a hypothetical of my own personal future prospecting. I do want to make it clear I'm not talking to myself

States of mind: the external states are important for knowing when and where we are through life, but the real stuff is internal states of mind, frames of reference. when we know that about ourselves we can know the states of minds of others by perspective taking in regards to the others in our life. we know who they are because they emotionally close to us, the people we can call at anytime for any reason. Emotional closeness isn't physical closeness even though that's part and parsel of it, it's keeping them in our heart.

the SUBJECT. we are all Subjects, with our own subjectivity to experience that is based on our experience in the world and what we know about ourselves as time unfolds based on the prospecting.

Ownership: we only own a few things in life, the only thing we really have is time time to do things for ourselves and for others. we cultivate skills and give back, we take action from ourselves not from others, happiness isn't about egocentric pleasure (even thought sometimes it is, when we need a break, or when life throws us a curveball sometimes we need to re-cooperate), we don't want to be a doormat for others which is why boundaries our so important, through boundaries not only do we understand ourselves, we understand others, and through empathy we understand the heart of ourselves and others. with boundaries, it's difficult to be manipulated because we can see right through those tactics.

the only person we own, is the self, our own independent subjectivity. the people and things external to us or contrasted with the things we think about reveal what is important to us.

self Ownership and anxiety. the coolest thing about self ownership is anxiety stops being a thing in our lives, when we give any thoughts of personal perfection to "nobody" as in "nobodies perfect" we can paradoxically become as talented as our hearts desire without the need for admiration from others, because the realization of what anxiety is is trying to perform or be something for others expectations and not for ourselves. Ill repeat that, anxiety is trying fit in so hard we deny ourselves, the paradox is, to fit in we have to only be ourselves. we become humble, because we remember visa veve reflecting on the past, that everybody was a beginner, that everybody comes from a good place, a home, a family, with friends and pets and fond memories, with prospect taking we realize how we want the same thing in the future life becomes fuller. personal anticdote, when all this was realize by my own Self, it's difficult for me to describe, it's like a lot of free energy that was locked in some part of my mind was free'd, the things I was good at before, I almost automatically got a few tiers better at thus, I fully believe the same phenomenon can happen to each of you which is why I'm writing all this out, I'm just trying to give back. with self ownership, we realize our personality and character, which always changes as we figure out more stuff about ourselves, new boundaries, new likes dislikes, new emotions, new affectionate resonance etc... we become strong and vulnerable at the same time. we end up valuing being wrong cause being wrong is the only way to learn, and what others say about us negatively and criticly with no value "tearing down" doesn't effect us cause we know others can't own us, cause we own only 1 person, our own personal subjectivity, and this is hard to explain, cause this happened the other day in my person, my ego or my "I" started to restructure itself automatically, there's a lot less of my personal ego statements in what I've written.

Mask and persona vs personality and character.

persona's are how we want to be seen by other people and not how we actually are. how we actually are is experienced as "experience of Self through self ownership and boundaries through being and doing in the world of people" The Self is who we actually are without regard with how people see us in the world by knowing people see us in the world, our flaws, and our strengths. we know who we are when what we do makes us happy, gives us a smile, makes us feel proud about what we have accomplished without gloating, because a smile is all the pride anybody needs. The Self is experienced by just sitting alone and being ok, sitting with a pet and having a good time, The Self is Prosocial, just like we all where when we where kids, spontaneous through prospect taking, We know The Self when we give up any dillusion of controlling others or telling others how to be, The Self is Automatically Configured when realized, The Self is realizing how taking things slow is a good idea sometimes, but zeal and speed is necessary other times, The Self is the realization of a calling or a few callings, and I'm going tell you all how to find it. The Self (and I'm using the singular as a plural here for reasons) is when we feel others good fortune or pain, when we are happy for others even if being so doesn't benefit ourselves in any other way than just being happy for others.

The Hardest part of Figuring out The Self with those of us Born with ADHD is our Propensity towards Self reflection or having a lot of "I" Statements. Self Reflection is indeed how we know who we are, what we think about, build our boundaries etc. But The Self with a CAPITAL T and S is Pre-reflection with a Phenomenal "Me" with a Capital M. Pre-reflection was a difficult to grasp on my part, so I'm not saying it's easy by any stretch of the imagination

so I'll ask a question, who read this post? the question isn't a " hands up to who read my post", the question is related TO THE SELFS OUT THERE. don't tell me who read this post, DO NOT THINK IN TERMS OF EGO EITHER. cause Ego is self reflection and we are talking Pre-Reflection meaning NO ego.

think about it, who read this post. The Self's out there You all read this post without realizing That The Self was reading the post. Touch the Desk in front of you, NO EGO STATMENT. just touch the desk, Feel the desk with your skin, who is touching the desk? no ego statments. just feel the desk touching your skin trusting the tactile sense and feelings of the Skin

look at your body through your own eyes all of you out there that are still reading, no ego statments, just look at your body, hands, feet, legs, whatever you can see without a mirror. be in silence while doing all of this.

look around the room your in, who's room is it? you can point but use no ego statments, be silent. the person you are pointing to, is THE SELF.

the next part is the toughest part to understand, it was on my part anyway. the word "THIS" denotes "person, place, thing, idea, time, place", the word "THAT" does as well. such as " I am looking at this cup of tea in front of me and in contrast that dog over there"" or " we are all reading what I'm writing on this computer screen or monitor" the word "this" denotes location of something, someone, or idea, or place.

apply the word "this" in your own speech" to the hand that touched the table, or the foot you all looked at. Then the Self Itself in your own regards will be Revealed Without looking in the Mirror, The Ego will restructure itself almost automatically. Personality and character will be Realized With Personal ownership of The Self will happen, might I add, with a confidence boost

I am not going to lie, stay in silence after this discovery, The reason will become apparent. but well be worth it. about a week ago I made this discovery, and I feel peaceful, more whole, more , new feelings are cropping up in myself I haven't identified yet, like parts of me that where dormant are starting to come alive, more harmonious able to laugh more, laugh at myself more, able to joke more, more spontanious, WAY more focused,, I have more energy, and can direct that energy at tasks that need to be done, able to put down almost all defenses except healthy Mature defences.

the best thing is, we get out of our own way and into living life free of most anxiety cause anxiety is just perfectionism and nobody is perfect, and we almost want to courageously face everything we are anxious of. stuff like "I'm taking a step, I'm taking a step" stops in our mind because we trust our body, The Self, the locomotion becomes automatic as we listen to our body and trust it.

I'm sharing the information, because I want to give back the only way I really can through the boards, to you all out there.

Last edited by Drogheda98; 08-05-20 at 02:36 AM..
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Old 08-05-20, 03:40 AM
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namazu namazu is offline
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Re: understanding the self.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drogheda98 View Post
about a week ago I made this discovery, and I feel peaceful, more whole, more , new feelings are cropping up in myself I haven't identified yet, like parts of me that where dormant are starting to come alive, more harmonious able to laugh more, laugh at myself more, able to joke more, more spontanious, WAY more focused,, I have more energy, and can direct that energy at tasks that need to be done, able to put down almost all defenses except healthy Mature defences.
I'm glad these revelations have helped you in your journey, and that you're continuing to grow and feel more comfortable in your own skin (i.e., to be your "authentic true self").

The range of ways in which we experience our ADHD/anxiety and ourselves is fascinating.

Thanks for sharing your experience. It's very different from my own!

Last edited by namazu; 08-05-20 at 03:52 AM..
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Old 08-05-20, 07:59 PM
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Re: understanding the self.

your' very welcome namazu
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Old 08-19-20, 07:43 PM
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Re: understanding the self.

Hi

First, I feel..

Our brains’ first prototype selves, are built upon our ancestors experiences, that promoted survival.

Each ancestor‘s individual experiences, genetically and epigenetically, add to and shape our inherited prototype self.

During the first brain processing level and first stage of the development of the self, memories are unconscious.

These early implicit memories are generated and stored in a relationship between the first primary brain operating and processing levels and secondary brain memories processing levels. (Upper limbic system)

In the beginning our conscious selves consist primarily of feelings and memories of feelings, lacking understanding.






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Last edited by mildadhd; 08-19-20 at 08:02 PM..
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