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Desoxyn methamphetamine hydrochloride (also known as desoxyephedrine)

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  #46  
Old 06-26-09, 06:44 PM
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Re: snri (pristiq) with desoxyn . kinda long but please look if u can help at all,tha

NO! Keep posting! I've been following this and want to add to it, but haven't had a chance. Maybe it should be moved to the antidepressant section?? I'll bet a lot of people could benefit from this type of discussion.

I'm hoping to get my story posted tonight...

Thanks! Yellow, your insight has been very helpful, and Tom, my situation is kind of like yours and Hollywood's, so I'm eager to compare notes!

roodyrider
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Old 06-27-09, 08:11 PM
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Re: snri (pristiq) with desoxyn . kinda long but please look if u can help at all,tha

Well then tom by all means type on type on
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Old 06-28-09, 03:56 AM
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Re: snri (pristiq) with desoxyn . kinda long but please look if u can help at all,tha

Jeez, I keep trying to post my story but it gets so freaking long nobody could get through it, so I'll just skip it and get to the point. I've become obsessed with finding the answer, but I've got to get on with my life!

I found this thread by doing a search for Remeron--looking for alternatives to what I'm currently taking. I don't think it's for me because I don't want to eat everything in sight, but I actually need to put on a few pounds so I'm not ruling it out yet. I hadn't heard of it, I was just searching for antidepressants without sexual side effects, but I do have sleep issues too, so I'm still on the fence about it. I know there were a couple of other options besides wellbutrin, but I don't even recall at this moment what those are.

I'm a 40 year old female. I was just diagnosed ADD in Nov. 2008. I've been to countless doctors over the years because of pain issues. I kept getting antidepressants prescribed because the thing that bothered me as much as the pain was a constant feeling of lethargy and lack of physical motivation. I train horses and am a "go, go, go" type of person. I am very goal oriented and am not lazy, but that "whatever it is" is always holding me back. I'll want to be doing this or that, but just sit there sort of unable to move or I'll find stupid distractions that keep me from what I actually want to do. It's maddening as hell! I'm working at home now, so there is no structure in my life and it has really made me realize how bad I am. I've just been bouncing around between the walls of structure my whole life! I have no idea if this is depression, or just a symptom of ADD, but it's driving me insane! I've never thought of myself as depressed--I always WANT to do what I need to do, I just can't seem to make the body do what the brain wants it to.

I've at least figured out that the pain is a separate issue--that's just a consequence of my very physical lifestyle and I've got it under control. When I realized I have ADD, I thought I had it solved, and maybe I'll get there, but am just on the wrong meds, but I'm about sick of trying to figure it out. Yellow, Tom and Hollywood--you guys seem to be on the same track with the meds that I am, and if any of you has any insight, I'd love to hear it!

Here's what I know:

I was on Cymbalta before I even knew about the ADD (for pain.) I had no idea how much it did for me until I lost my insurance and had to stop taking it. It made me jump out of bed early and get moving, and I wasn't so short with people anymore. I did nothing but yawn and stretch for a week when I started it, but the stretching felt great--apparently I had a whole bunch of tension built up, because my muscles didn't stretch very well at all before that. I did end up taking it before bed and that alleviated all of the tiredness. I actually tolerated it very well compared to anything else I had tried.

The negatives of Cymbalta: cost, sexual side effects (deal breaker,) and it was a bad deal if you missed a dose--which kind of freaks me out, and cessation was hell.

I was curious if you all are having the sex issues with the seratonin drugs. You all seem to be young guys, so I'd think that wouldn't be OK with any of you either. Or do stimulants counteract the sexual side effects? I did notice that my sex life got even better with just Adderall...

I started Adderall while I was still on Cymbalta, but the overlap time wasn't enough to know whether they were any good together--but I suspect Adderall just isn't for me no matter what I take it with!

So then it was just Adderall. That's terrible. It takes away my physical motivation completely and made me bite everyone's head off. Sometimes it keeps me up all night, sometimes it knocks me out. I really don't like it at all--I've been tweaking it since November and it just isn't working.

Added Zoloft to Adderall. Not biting heads off, but still don't want to do anything. I got the kick in the pants to get moving from the Cymbalta, but I don't know why--I'm guessing it's the NE piece, since adderall doesn't do it and Zoloft doesn't do it. However, opiates really get me moving (hydrocodone a little, but oxycodone a LOT) and they do affect dopamine, so I'm confused by that and I think that's because I'm either incorrect in my assumptions about Adderall's actions, or it's that they affect dopamine differently. I haven't taken Zoloft long enough to know if the sexual side effects are back. Seems like they are, but more research is needed.

I'm trying to figure out where to go from here. I was thinking about Wellbutrin, but my doc didn't think it was right for someone who tends to have a short fuse and a lot of tension. Plus, he didn't want to prescribe it with a stimulant, so if I want to stay with a stimulant, it's not an option anyway. I was also thinking of doing just wellbutrin with no stimulant, or WB and Zoloft with no stim--I'd much rather be moving with no focus than focusing but not moving! I made it 40 years with ADD, I suppose I can make it 40 more. I'd just like to exhaust my options before I decide to just deal with it. I'd really prefer no drugs at all, but I guess we all would, and I'm realizing I'm probably going to have to take something.

Would the stimulant result be different if I switched to Dexedrine? I asked the doc to switch and he said no, but I was just calling in a refill. He's a general practitioner, but very intelligent and will spend time talking to you, so I'm sure if I explained myself on my next visit, he would be OK with it. I tried Concerta a couple of times unprescribed and it made me wide awake and very depressed. I hated it, so I'm not even entertaining those types.

So with cost being relevant, it seems that my options are few. Adderall and Dexedrine are my stimulant options and Wellbutrin and Zoloft seem like the best antidepressant possibilities. Is there something else I haven't discovered yet? Maybe I'd be fine with a different stimulant and no antiderpressant at all? I did all of the speed drugs when I was young and never once did they do to me what the Adderall does--but I didn't do them every day, so maybe that's the difference?

So much for my short story. I wrote a freaking book just to conclude that I don't really have any options!

Good thing I didn't go with the long version, huh?

Off to bed! Thanks for making it to the end of this thing! If anyone has suggestions, I'm all ears!

roodyrider
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  #49  
Old 06-28-09, 04:36 AM
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Re: snri (pristiq) with desoxyn . kinda long but please look if u can help at all,tha

Yellow, I just re-read your first post and I'm optimistic again. I actually have the Stephen Stahl book--I picked it up a long time ago, but it was before I knew I had ADD, so I never got anywhere with it. The one I have is old though. If there's a newer version, I'll have to pick it up.

Apathy is a great word for what Adderall is doing to me. It's 3:30 in the morning and I was having a hard time describing things accurately. It does seem that you can get that with one stimulant, but not necessarily another, so maybe a switch will make a huge difference. The Zoloft is slightly motivating, but I'm only taking 50 mg. I'll bet the result would be totally different at a higher dose, so perhaps if the stimulant counteracts the sexual side effects, I would be OK with just Zoloft and Dex. but I know the reason my doc doesn't want to prescribe it is because of addiction potential, which of course is of concern to me as well, especially given my "conquer the world" personality.

I didn't even mention Pristiq, which I'm intrigued by as well, it just isn't an option at the moment, but I will be insured again soon, so maybe that will be a possibility too. The thing that's keeping me from the answer is that I don't know the psychopharmacology stuff as well as you do yet, but I'm very fascinated by it, so I'll keep at it. There surely is an answer for me, I'm just not the most patient person in the world!

ok, now to bed, since I swore I'd be asleep by 10 P.M.

Thanks for all of your posts--I'm going to go back through them again. I know they have gotten me closer to my answer than I would have ever been on my own!
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  #50  
Old 06-28-09, 08:47 PM
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Re: snri (pristiq) with desoxyn . kinda long but please look if u can help at all,tha

you would think that if you tolerated cymbalta well you would have stuck on that medication and added a stim. All the ssri meds will affect sex drive, cymbalta and the other various snri's are supposed to affect them less or have less sexual sides. My guess is that the NE is a good adjunct with your serotonin , so I would stick with a snri if your using an antidepressant with stim.
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Old 06-28-09, 11:14 PM
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Re: snri (pristiq) with desoxyn . kinda long but please look if u can help at all,tha

i highly recommend exploring pristiq and remeron. you can read any of my posts on this stuff and see, maybe tom and hollywood could personally link you up cuz it was mostly discussed with them.
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  #52  
Old 06-29-09, 02:42 AM
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Re: snri (pristiq) with desoxyn . kinda long but please look if u can help at all,tha

I took Desoxyn Gradumet from 1980 - 1993 in doses varying from 20 - 45 mg. Then I was place on dextroamphetamine SO4. It made a tremendous difference, but the real difference came when I combined a benzo Klonipin, Xanax, Tranxene, Atavan, with prosac. Recently I tried large doses of Nuvigil a new form of Provigil, and I find that it may be the best yet in terms of allowing me to concentrate without anxiety, or some of the obsessive components of dex, desoxyn, and methylphenidate. It is a non-triplicate drug, and requires less headaches to obtain. It is just as potent as dex as I stopped dex and used nuvigil and it worked just as well, which hasn't been the case with other lesser controlled substances.
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  #53  
Old 06-29-09, 09:27 AM
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Re: snri (pristiq) with desoxyn . kinda long but please look if u can help at all,tha

I have never been on the rougher meds like desoxyn or dexedrine and have only been on mph. I tried to go on provigil along with my stims but insurance wouldn't cover. From what I have heard it works well and maybe a good add on to stims ( and you may be able to lower your stim dose with it alongside ) Not sure though , the fda should clear this up and approve it if one person with adhd has success from it's use. Makes sense to me.
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Old 06-29-09, 02:52 PM
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Re: snri (pristiq) with desoxyn . kinda long but please look if u can help at all,tha

You know, Hollywood, when I had finished typing my post I kind of thought the same thing. But I left out major parts of the story because it's just too long! I guess I can sum it up by saying that my life had sprialed out of control. One of the reasons this happened is that I had allowed myself to become a doormat, both in my job and my relationship. When I stopped Cymbalta, it was like I woke up and said WTF?? I quit the job and ended the relationship. I really felt like being on an antidepressant had sort of "numbed" me to the point that I wasn't even me anymore, and that really scared me.

I've decided to stop what I'm doing now and start over. As I said before, I'm uninsured right now, so Cymbalta and Pristiq aren't even options at the moment. I know the SSRI isn't for me, so that's off the list. I'm still not sure I shouldn't give Wellbutrin a try.

If, in fact, there was a change in my personality from Cymbalta, it's the seratonin part because the Zoloft was doing it to me too. I'm not at a place in life where I have to sit at a desk, so I really don't need the intense focus I was getting from the adderall--it's more the kick in the pants to get going that I need. I think looking for that from a stimulant is definitely playing with fire, which is why I've decided just to skip the stimulants for now. AND, I really need to quit smoking--never going to happen on stimulants, will for sure happen with WB.

That's why I wondered if it was logical for someone who tolerated Cymbalta well, to also have success with Wellbutrin.

I've decided that adding additional medications to counteract others isn't ideal, and I'd rather live with it than go down that road, which is what keeps leading me back to Wellbutrin. I guess the only way to find out is to try it, huh?
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Old 06-29-09, 03:53 PM
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Re: snri (pristiq) with desoxyn . kinda long but please look if u can help at all,tha

actually roody i have some good news for you that i found out from my psychiatrist actually

wyeth, the company that makes pristiq, will give you your medication for free in three month supplies if you get your dr to write you a prescription. you send it to wyeth, or they send you a form, and once they see your prescription they give you pristiq for free. go to wyeth's site to find out more, and i hope they are still doing this because they were doing it when it came out a few months ago, but try it

and if theres anything to learn from here, its definitely not to think wellbutrin will be the be all end all. i dont like wellbutrin too much, but i think its very novel and interesting and helpful for many. however, you have also prozac or paxil which are great, but you gotta try each, then of course theres luvox,but id save that as the last ssri. celexa/lexapro i wouldnt bother with. then theres high dose effexor which is almost like pristiq, but not as good, if u dont wanna try the wyeth approach.

then theres remeron and the MAOI's. nardil is one that is very good, but there are others like parnate.

you have a lot of options, and wellbutrin does nothing for ADHD or ADD btw.
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Old 06-29-09, 04:55 PM
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Re: snri (pristiq) with desoxyn . kinda long but please look if u can help at all,tha

you just love pristiq yellow. hell you have me believing.
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Old 06-29-09, 07:40 PM
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Re: snri (pristiq) with desoxyn . kinda long but please look if u can help at all,tha

That's good to know about the free Pristiq. Thanks for the heads up. But the thing that strikes me is "MDD" all over the advertising--I thought "what's that?" I don't have MAJOR depression? Or is that even relevant? Or could that distinction be simply a dosage issue, like I'll eventually get to below regarding Cymbalta? I hope these questions don't sound stupid. I honestly don't know the answers.

Yellow, did you ever try Cymbalta? I didn't see that you did, but remember I'm taking no medication today so I'm veeeery sleeeepy and not all that sharp at the moment.

Hollywood, I re-read your post where you described your personality and it seems that you and I are similar in that regard. I really believe my depression comes from the frustration associated with ADD. I don't think of myself as having anxiety--I've never had a panic attack or anythiong close, but I DO go over things in my head incessantly, which really makes me lose track of what I'm doing. I have lots of tension and stress, but I wouldn't call that anxiety. If anything truly gives me anxiety, it's intolerance of boredom. Being bored and being sedated are two of my least favorite things!! Please correct me if I'm wrong about my definition of anxiety. If I'm not experiencing anxiety, then WB still looks good to me (Sorry Yellow, aka Pristiq Poster Boy, I'm not UN-convinced yet about the WB! ) Noting those similarities between you and me, Hollywood, is what made me wonder about WB, since that seems to be working for you. That is still what you're taking, right?

Did you ever try the Cymbalta before bed? That made a huge difference for me. At first, I woke up several times during the night, but that went away. Every doc I ever saw asked if I had trouble sleeping and the answer was always "No way, it's exactly the opposite--I sleep like I'm dead!" I'd never move a muscle or remember a dream. Cymbalta made my sleep seem more normal. Hmmm... It didn't do anything for my ADD, but I was certainly more productive when I was on it than when I was not, and I think I just answered why.

There was a gal who posted on here somewhere that she breaks her Cymbalta and just takes half (mabye even less) of the beads per dose and that made a huge difference. The side effects weren't TOO bad w/Cymbalta. Maybe that would do the trick (and make it a LOT cheaper--especially if I have him prescribe 60 mg, since 60 and 30 cost the same.) Actually, wasn't that you Hollywood who commented that you didn't have time to mess with that? It would be a pain, but better than side effects!

I forgot all about Strattera. Isn't it pretty much Cymbalta without the seratonin, which is actually what I was wanting anyway.

I wonder how Tom's doing with the Remeron...

Man, I think too much!
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Old 06-29-09, 07:57 PM
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Re: snri (pristiq) with desoxyn . kinda long but please look if u can help at all,tha

This is a great discussion, by the way. Thanks so much you guys for your input!! I still have some Cymbalta, so I may just test the theory of breaking it up. If that works, I'll bet I can then add the Adderall back in. I'm positive I was taking too much of it looking for physical motivation. If I'm not taking too much of it, then I probably won't feel compelled to sit at the computer all day! I can at least test that theory with what is available to me now--without a trip to the doctor's office. He's muy expensivo!
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Old 06-29-09, 08:07 PM
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Re: snri (pristiq) with desoxyn . kinda long but please look if u can help at all,tha

lol hollywood. im just tryin to help man, if she cant afford meds, wyeth gives them away for free....might as well take advantage right? especially with no insurance. and to be honest, i just dig pristiq cuz it works for me, after so many failed attempts with other meds, but i mean remeron and zoloft are just as impressive in my opinion, as is mianserin, but thast not really available so i dont mention it. i really would love to get remeron, and i just might add it at some point down the line just to check it out. i dont wanna guinea pig myself and since im takin pristiq at the same time as dex, the neuroprotection is probably way better than remeron's which would be taken at night and has a different mechanism. i dont know if remeron is nueroprotective against dex in the way that pristiq (and the ss/n/dri's are).....desvenlafaxine works for me so i work with it, ya dig?

and roody talk to hollywood about cymbalta, he knows all about it. never tried it myself and never will. dont worry about labels like MDD and so on, im on pristiq for psychotic bipolar, u know what i mean? they say not to give us stimulants or ssris but im on both and doin better than ever.
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Old 06-29-09, 08:31 PM
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Re: snri (pristiq) with desoxyn . kinda long but please look if u can help at all,tha

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnatmls View Post
Recently I tried large doses of Nuvigil a new form of Provigil, and I find that it may be the best yet in terms of allowing me to concentrate without anxiety, or some of the obsessive components of dex, desoxyn, and methylphenidate. It is a non-triplicate drug, and requires less headaches to obtain. It is just as potent as dex as I stopped dex and used nuvigil and it worked just as well, which hasn't been the case with other lesser controlled substances.

Hey can you tell us more about nuvigil? it just came out and im curious to maybe add it to dex, as in switching between dex and that for breaks, or just switching from the amphetamine familiy altogether.
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