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Desoxyn methamphetamine hydrochloride (also known as desoxyephedrine)

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  #31  
Old 06-09-09, 12:58 AM
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Re: snri (pristiq) with desoxyn . kinda long but please look if u can help at all,tha

good to know i've got the best kind then!
list: 15mg dex (5mg barr 3x daily) + 25mg sertraline (generic by greenstone)

i've been on the dex almost a week now and i hadn't reacted like that before starting zoloft on sunday.. i know 25mg has got to be too low to feel any DA reuptake inhibition but the feeling was definitely dopaminergic. it was a feeling of slight pressure behind the eyes, like i was "in the zone", quick on my words, feelings slightly amplified, listening more intently and things being more 'wow' than normal, along with the intense focus on the movie; if i tried to look to the side of the screen my vision was "pulled" back to the screen, however its worthy to note i get really into action movies. today tho we were watching a bit of Dark Night in bio class and i had that same strong focus. possibly im an idiosyncracy but i've read of people saying they felt the dopaminergic effects of zoloft the first time they've taken it and also on steady doses of 50mg... my reading speed is even up, which happened when i first started adderall.

i doubt it was the dex pills themselves because they are so damn smooth. so it's got to be either the zoloft itself (doubtful but maybe possible? i swear i feel a diff and this is day 2) or synergy between the dex + zoloft.. i read this somewhere: "SSRIs are best avoided since they may increase the central nervous system effects of CNS stimulants if the drugs are taken together."
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  #32  
Old 06-09-09, 01:12 AM
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Re: snri (pristiq) with desoxyn . kinda long but please look if u can help at all,tha

You know, I wouldn't say it's impossible for the DA reuptake to have effected you. It might have had a little tweak, lol, but I dont know. DEX is what is dopaminergic man.
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  #33  
Old 06-09-09, 10:04 AM
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Re: snri (pristiq) with desoxyn . kinda long but please look if u can help at all,tha

wow,

and you say this is all the cumulative results of having combined dexedrine and zoloft? Your reading and comprehension " processing" speed has gotten faster? Man that's crazy, I had the result with dexedrine combined with adderall but adderall didn't do much until I took it with the 5mg dexedrine tablets. I too had increased processing and had better symptom control, I wonder if it's the dexedrine tablets that is the result of this. I took zoloft once and broke out in itchy hives , so I'm not sure I can take it ever again but generally speaking antidepressants don't mix well with adhd so everytime I take one my motivation , and processing skills slow down , they don't improve. I wish I had those results with anti d's but usually they don't help my adhd .
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Old 06-09-09, 11:04 AM
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Re: snri (pristiq) with desoxyn . kinda long but please look if u can help at all,tha

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Originally Posted by hollywood View Post
wow,

and you say this is all the cumulative results of having combined dexedrine and zoloft? Your reading and comprehension " processing" speed has gotten faster? Man that's crazy, I had the result with dexedrine combined with adderall but adderall didn't do much until I took it with the 5mg dexedrine tablets. I too had increased processing and had better symptom control, I wonder if it's the dexedrine tablets that is the result of this. I took zoloft once and broke out in itchy hives , so I'm not sure I can take it ever again but generally speaking antidepressants don't mix well with adhd so everytime I take one my motivation , and processing skills slow down , they don't improve. I wish I had those results with anti d's but usually they don't help my adhd .
yeah man, i mean, tom, were not being skeptical or anything, but such a quick change in one day....i think its dex too
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  #35  
Old 06-09-09, 03:16 PM
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Re: snri (pristiq) with desoxyn . kinda long but please look if u can help at all,tha

on paper i'd be skeptical but i can't deny the difference im feeling (and not placebo). the thing tho is that my dex dose has not changed.. i dont see how it can be the dex alone, i believe it's got to do with synergy. unless it could be that the zoloft has begun to lift some of my depression so im responding to the dex better now. when you're depressed its definitely harder to concentrate (hence nobody thought ADHD until a year after i was diagnosed w/ depression), so maybe this is almost how i'd experience dex as a normally happy person? so maybe it's got nothing to do with a synergistic combo, and w/ the zoloft my brain is kickin out the depression couch potato nd getting back to normal speeds?

hollywood, i can say my processing has indeed improved: last night i wrote an essay in under an hour (typically takes me several), today finished my precalc final 1st and in half the alotted time, was sightreading better than normal than in band, and spoke more fluently than normal on my spanish oral final exam.. but im doubtful this is going to persist. as we know SSRIs dont start to have their true effects until they downregulate your serotonin receptors and i am very highly skeptical has happened in not even 3 days. so in a couple weeks i predict things will be a lot different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hollywood View Post
generally speaking antidepressants don't mix well with adhd so everytime I take one my motivation , and processing skills slow down , they don't improve. I wish I had those results with anti d's but usually they don't help my adhd .
this is why i was hesitant to go on an SSRI again.. on lexapro and prozac my motivation was worse and my processing skills were slow as HELL on prozac until adding adderall, it was like cognitive impairment. im expecting to experience this dumbing down again honestly, and extra worried because zoloft has the 2nd highest affinity for muscarininc blockade behind paxil. this morning, im not even kidding, i was INCHES away from getting seriously hurt because i crossed a main road w/o looking and cars in 3 directions came sliding to a halt (wet road), the closest being less than a foot from me! yes i have adhd and im impulsive but this wasn't happening before sunday.. i feel like although my processing has improved, my awareness is diminished.. f***, ive heard good things about zoloft, ppl saying its the only SSRI thats worked for them.. its still an SSRI though, and for me that means flatness and amotivation, apathy.. if this happens to me im done with this ssri bs and getting a job so my mom will order tianeptine for me.
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Old 06-09-09, 03:57 PM
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Re: snri (pristiq) with desoxyn . kinda long but please look if u can help at all,tha

well man the only thing left i could say is (and i guess i already did but anyway) zoloft is activating, probably the most activating ssri, and i would definitely say dopamine has something to do with it, and ill get to that later.

it has hardly any affinity for any other receptors other than (in order) SERT, DA, SIGMA-1, and alpha 1- adrenoreceptors (α1 ), which is a good thing because that receptors blockade is associated with lessening hypertension, what tenex kinda does but on a diffrent site, so since your taking dex, that is a definite plus. its very minor, like it wouldnt cause hypotension, but zoloft is given to patients who do have hypertension problems.

NE is effected through SE/DA reuptake. that doesnt mean that sertraline acts on NE as strongly as SE/DA/S1/A1, but it definitely effects it through the other neurotransmitters and i beleive it has very minimal NE reuptake, but again, its there, thats also activating. it also inhibits p450 enzyme, so that might be why your experiencing a change in the dex effect. I would simply theorize based on what you say that zoloft is potentiating the dex, and you are noticing it since its so recent, and i would also conclude that the effects will stabilize the longer you take the zoloft.

im not sure what your concerned about, but zoloft is the best ssri, and the synergy you may be experiencing is a bonus on top of the others already mentioned. the only other anti depressants id bother with are pristiq and remeron, but if zoloft works, good.

btw, im sensing something, and if you are looking for anything but help, then i cant help. i hope that helps.

hope ive helped positively, for both of us, and for everyone else
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  #37  
Old 06-09-09, 09:25 PM
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Re: snri (pristiq) with desoxyn . kinda long but please look if u can help at all,tha

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow View Post
im not sure what your concerned about, but zoloft is the best ssri, and the synergy you may be experiencing is a bonus on top of the others already mentioned. the only other anti depressants id bother with are pristiq and remeron, but if zoloft works, good.

btw, im sensing something, and if you are looking for anything but help, then i cant help. i hope that helps.

hope ive helped positively, for both of us, and for everyone else
i'm not sure i know what you mean by "sensing something"... what i'm concerned about with zoloft is basically being on another medication that will fail to treat my depression. it seems like it's impossible with the meds we have here to get serotonergic relief -- meaning happiness, contentment, less anxiety -- without becoming numbed out from your feelings and amotivated, anhedonic, asexual... i'm scared and reluctant to take zoloft because i want to be happy and feel alive, not a content zombie who's given up on actually FEELING happiness. i refuse to end up like my mom (shes been on prozac since -- wait she's even forgotten).

i've been on: lexapro, wellbutrin, abilify, risperdal, WB again, lamictal, prozac, adderall, focalin, addy again, dexedrine, zoloft.. i've yet to find adequate relief. my first psychiatrist actually asked me to consider ECT when we were trying me on my FIRST med (lexapro).. i had just turned 16

basically i constantly seek information b/c i just don't feel right (never really have), i want to get better, so i NEED to figure this out. i just can't ever stop thinking about it, my treatment has become my obsession. since i was 5, or can remember, i've been trying to figure out when i'll finally be 'okay'.. yes im driving myself crazy but i won't give up until things are right. its really frustrating

just a big thank you for answering my questions.. my mind won't stop until i answer them or take a sleeping pill. this forum really helps deal with the mental load, thanks again guys
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  #38  
Old 06-09-09, 09:58 PM
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Re: snri (pristiq) with desoxyn . kinda long but please look if u can help at all,tha

tom,

I can't remember if you stated if you were in college or not. I think you maybe should consider moving somewhere where it is sunny and you could start new? I just say that because maybe there are other factors that are bringing you down besides yourself, considering a life journey and following it may help you feel like you are more than just depressed and take your mind off all this stuff, sometimes your environment can really bring you down and sometimes the best med is peace of mind and a well thought task and a feeling of self worth when you do something and achieve it as you planned it. I don't know, you seem too smart to be so down on yourself. I understand adhd really is a pain, as is depression but I can't help but notice alot of depressed people become that way from others around them that are negative and it's tough to break the cycle with negativity around you. Keep your head up bro, you will find it , and many times the light at the end of the tunnel will have nothing to do with drugs , they help but they are not the answer in the end. You and your decisions do that-
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  #39  
Old 06-10-09, 10:48 AM
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Re: snri (pristiq) with desoxyn . kinda long but please look if u can help at all,tha

well in that case tom, i can only recommend those other two antidepressants for information. pristiq and remeron. if you zoloft is working, then maybe look into remeron for night time anti depressant work, its actually like a sert agonist, but its sedating for night time/insomnia depressive.

if zoloft doesnt work out for you, and the ssri's in general didnt work (and i cant see anything better than zoloft, though everyones different), then look into adding remeron for the night (so you have zoloft for day, remeron for night, which of course carries into the day) and if u dont like zoloft, maybe you wanna check out the snri.

i know what you mean by looking until you find something that works. i found what finally worked for me was pristiq and dexedrine. for you, it might be zoloft and dex, but you might need some time to check/adjust.

finally, mirtazapine (remeron) might be useful especially if u cant sleep or needd sleepin pills to sleep, and read about desvenlafaxine (pristiq) if zoloft doesnt work. but dont go into it waitin for it not to work, cuz you might miss it working that way. good luck man. peace
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  #40  
Old 06-13-09, 09:35 PM
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Re: snri (pristiq) with desoxyn . kinda long but please look if u can help at all,tha

Quote:
Originally Posted by hollywood View Post
tom,

I can't remember if you stated if you were in college or not. I think you maybe should consider moving somewhere where it is sunny and you could start new? I just say that because maybe there are other factors that are bringing you down besides yourself, considering a life journey and following it may help you feel like you are more than just depressed and take your mind off all this stuff, sometimes your environment can really bring you down and sometimes the best med is peace of mind and a well thought task and a feeling of self worth when you do something and achieve it as you planned it. I don't know, you seem too smart to be so down on yourself. I understand adhd really is a pain, as is depression but I can't help but notice alot of depressed people become that way from others around them that are negative and it's tough to break the cycle with negativity around you. Keep your head up bro, you will find it , and many times the light at the end of the tunnel will have nothing to do with drugs , they help but they are not the answer in the end. You and your decisions do that-
hollywood, your post really hit home for me. i thought about it for a while, and i even printed it out for when i went to therapy on wednesday and talked about it with my therapist.. nah im not in college yet, i just finished my junior year in high school and now that summer's begun for me i'm really going to focus on changing my life. gonna start soon seeing my therapist twice a week like i did last summer.

what you said is really spot on. since last summer i've been focusing on the meds part a whole lot, and while neuropsychopharmacologically ive come far, existentially ive lost touch. you can mess with my chemistry all you want but my soul is something different. i do need meds but really i need to find who i am, and you're exactly right about my environment. there is way too much negativity here, its hard to be stable when you have toxic energy around you. school keeps my mind occupied (stressed too) but i realize now its not necessarily the lack of structure that throws me off in the summer, but the people around me. the problem is having a need to be distracted. yea, adhd makes it really difficult to have peace of mind, but there's too much going on here that's fueling the fire and bringing me down.

you're right, i need to get away.. before med school too. when i talked to my therapist i said i'd love to start somewhere way out there, like the mountains. somewhere i can just ADD space out but it won't be "spacing out" because there's nothing i'll have to focus on. where its OK to let my mind wander. a journey would be perfect -- would stimulate my mind with excitement, allowing me to be calm, just like the meds. my mind is always on the go but the problem is i'm not going anywhere, so i get stuck, and depressed. after some time alone i'd love to go to europe and just immerse myself in a different culture, learn a couple languages (i know spanish already) and get a new perspective. two summers ago i went to poland for a month, just me and my polish cleaning lady (she's like family to us), and it was really therapeutic. perhaps i'll see if my mom will ship me off to spain this summer, i would love that.

hollywood, thank you for opening my eyes!!
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Old 06-13-09, 10:09 PM
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Re: snri (pristiq) with desoxyn . kinda long but please look if u can help at all,tha

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow View Post
well in that case tom, i can only recommend those other two antidepressants for information. pristiq and remeron. if you zoloft is working, then maybe look into remeron for night time anti depressant work, its actually like a sert agonist, but its sedating for night time/insomnia depressive.

if zoloft doesnt work out for you, and the ssri's in general didnt work (and i cant see anything better than zoloft, though everyones different), then look into adding remeron for the night (so you have zoloft for day, remeron for night, which of course carries into the day) and if u dont like zoloft, maybe you wanna check out the snri.

i know what you mean by looking until you find something that works. i found what finally worked for me was pristiq and dexedrine. for you, it might be zoloft and dex, but you might need some time to check/adjust.

finally, mirtazapine (remeron) might be useful especially if u cant sleep or needd sleepin pills to sleep, and read about desvenlafaxine (pristiq) if zoloft doesnt work. but dont go into it waitin for it not to work, cuz you might miss it working that way. good luck man. peace
yellow, thanks for bringing up remeron! first of all, have you tried it before? i did some looking into mirtaz and it seems really promising being that it's like amphetamine but for depression, in terms of releasing 5-HT and NE like how d-amp releases DA and NE. a bunch of studies say it's more efficacious than (des)venlafaxine and all SSRIs for depression, the only issue is tolerating it. i'm not sure if i could handle the insane H1-antagonist sedation i've read about, although empirical things say higher dosages can offset the sedation b/c of more NE being released. since i'm done with school as of this week, now would be a good time to try mirtaz and sleep all day until i'm titrated. the increased appetite would actually be a huge plus for me as my depression has killed my appetite for months + add dex to the mix and i would certainly not mind the urge to eat sugar out of the bag (i've read of remeron users doing that!!) or completely stuff my face for that matter. and i'm skinny as is so i wouldn't mind a couple pounds.

i'm going to see how the zoloft goes for me, and im staying optimistic about it, but i have a feeling i'd be better off with something like mirtaz to force those monoamines out of their neurons, where they've been hiding all these years. also, having a healthy libido is a big part of feeling connected to other humans and a big part of just being a teenager in general; zoloft surely aint gonna be good for that!! i'm going to ask my doc about remeron on the 23rd.
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Old 06-23-09, 09:23 PM
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Re: snri (pristiq) with desoxyn . kinda long but please look if u can help at all,tha

Update! Today i had my doc appointment and we d/c'd the zoloft in favor of remeron! yea, there goes my ADHD self jumping from one thing to another but anyway, 30mg of mirtaz at bedtime it is. starting that high because my doc agreed with me (my online reading haha) that sedation is less at higher doses, so we're skipping right to 30mg.

any specific/ interesting/ first-hand info or advice on mirtaz for me? ty in advance
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Old 06-25-09, 02:05 PM
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Re: snri (pristiq) with desoxyn . kinda long but please look if u can help at all,tha

zoloft is still good medicine, i would have waited a while longer and maybe asked to add it, but its ur docs call really. and remeron hasnt been studied against pristiq, though it does seem to do more than the regular ssri's.

let me know how the first few days have been.
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Old 06-25-09, 08:59 PM
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Re: snri (pristiq) with desoxyn . kinda long but please look if u can help at all,tha

Quote:
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tom, your goin with the remeron too, awesome. i actually would like to hear your reaction to it, because i am trying to get my girlfriend to go on remeron because she gets terrible reactions to reuptake inhibition (TCA or SS/N/DRI's) and shes tolerating antagonism with 5htp2 (buspar) tho its not doing much she says, so i have been suggesting remeron for months but the psychs arent available,her appt is on the 29th and she is going to ask for remeron. the only other thing left as far as i can tell if remeron doesnt work is nardil, but thats just as bad/worse than TCA's. to me, remeron looks awesome, and i would love the chance to try it, its just i dont need to right now. if i had insomnia, i would definitely ask for remeron.

my girlfriend has anxiety/mild depression with insomnia. so remeron would be perfect for her, if the doc gives it to her on the 29th, ill let u know her reactions, and in the meantime let me know how you react, like if you can man, log a sentence each day so i can see how it works (like "day 1 - made me sleep for 12 hours. day 2..."). im the only person i know who takes pristiq, tho ive read some threads and reviews, and your the first ive been able to talk to with remeron so these two arent as popular so sharing what u get out of it might help her.

ps i was replying as u wrote that last part about the off topic high jackin of my thread lol
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zoloft is still good medicine, i would have waited a while longer and maybe asked to add it, but its ur docs call really. and remeron hasnt been studied against pristiq, though it does seem to do more than the regular ssri's.

let me know how the first few days have been.
Okay, i got your post here from the other thread so everything's all in on place! but of course this IS an ADHD forum so naturally our thoughts are all over the place

SO! Yeah, i know 2.5 weeks is not a very adequate med trial, but it was enough to tell that Zoloft was another shabby SSRI (IMO!) that was going to make me feel crappy.. I was actually feeling a little emotion at one point in the trial and there was mild contentment, but it ended up just numbing me out like any other SSRI and i felt worse than i did before starting it. Plus 2.5 wks was plenty time to give me sexual dysfunction, veryy bad for a 17-yr-old!!!! When my doc heard that he recommended going down to 37.5 but i said im done with SSRIs, they dont do **** for me.

That's really interesting about your girlfriend! I seem to be the same way: i haven't tried TCAs, but i've tried 3 SSRIs along with bupropion XL all of which i reacted badly to in some sort of way although it might have helped at some time. then we tried lamictal and that was actually a really great drug for my depression, if only i had had a stimulant then too (not til december) then it might've been close to perfect.. if it werent for the side-effects such as badd cognitive slowing and not processing things so also derealization and dissociation.. not good to lose yourself! We found out im really sensitive to lamictal, even went down to 25mg and side-effects were too much. but i find it veRy interesting that i had a really good antidepressant effect from it (despite feeling like a zombie!), because it has effects on i think 5HT-3 receptors by blocking them, not sure about the number but it's definitely a serotonin receptor blocker. So when i read about mirtaz i was sparked by the multi 5HT-receptor (5HT-1 and 5HT-2) blocking effect. Also awesome is its release of serotonin from 5HT-1 receptors (because antagonism of presynaptic alpha2-adrenoreceptors indirectly agonises the 5HT-1 receptor) and also its release enhancement of adrenalin at the alpha-1 adrenoreceptor (which is peripheral). So it looks (and kind of feels like, actually) it has activating properties negated/covered up by its H1 antagonism. However, the sedation is not really that bad starting at 30mg instead of 15mg! This is because the adrenalin-releasing effects offset the histamine-blocking sedation. Also GREAT for me is the increase in appetite, i can say my appetite is coming back a lil bit day by day! My emotions seem to be coming back, actually the first day on it after taking it the previous night was awesome! HEre's how day 1 went, starting from the night before:

Tuesday Night before day 1: I took the mirtaz at 10pm expecting to be knocked into sleepland but actually my legs became very restless and agitated! I couldn't sleep that way so i had to take .25mg alprazolam to help me sleep, which it did within 20mins (i love that fast effect!). I was expecting to wake up the next day after sleeping for CRAZy amounts of time such as 20hrs, which i read on forums... but.. I woke up at 6:10 AM!! I woke up kind of stimulated, looking all around me, and feeling kind of ALIVE for the first time! Was kinda cool, and i wasn't tooo sedated during the day but i could feel it, was tiring. The coolest thing was that evening at 6pm (wednesday) i went to therapy and during the session i felt so alive, i rediscovered my feelings and stuff and just i was going ADHD crAZY hyper and excited, looking aroudn everwhere and finding it more comfortable to talk with my head 3/4 upside down while lying on the couch staring at the ceiling lol! Even though i was on the Dex at the time :O Then actually, maybe this is the most awesome part: after therapy at 7:30ish i smoked some herbal products and felt soo if ya know what i mean. when i lay down that first night is when things started getting really cool: closing my eyes on my bed settling down, i got the SICKEST closed-eye visuals of all these patterns, shapes and colors like a kaleidoscopE!! Then i began to DREAM while awake, knowing i was awake but being inside a dreamlike trance where i could create my dream and it was very VIVID with the environment and surroundings! So i was pretty much hallucinating while awake and haivng CEVs, so coool. I just fell asleep around 11(?) into one of the dreams and it was cool!

Thursday, DAy 2 (tday): i woke up at 9am by my alarm clock and i was reallly tired, pretty sedated actually. had lots of tiredness today but i also became realllly really hyper around midday when visiting my mom's school (she teaches special ed in a middle school) and needing to walk around, move constantly and nag mom to leave even if we were going to be early for her faculty party. at the party i started getting really tired then i woke up when taking the 2nd dex dose of the day at 1pm.. then my mom's friend pickd me up to drive to my road test and i was ok energy then, not really nervous but i failed miserably lol. 120 points on the test when the highest you can get and still pass is 30 (points are added from 0 when you screw up) haha! i honestly dont know what happened that made me mess up that hard but ill take it again. Then i got verry tired after i failed and had to lie down the car ride home for over 30mins, feeling really sick like a sinus infection. i got home and rested then the dex at 5pm gave me more energy and i took a bunch of vitamins and magnesium. so i met my friend and we had more herbal matter and here i am. tired but still up, and closing my eyes makes things buzz and my eyes turn weirdly! i hope i'll have more visuals tonight, would be really cool.

in conclusion remeron is really something and has a lot of room to work with. that's so cool buspar is working for her, because only lamictal's SER blocking got me back up too! so definitely i'd go for remeron because you're gonna get buspar's effects by the mirtaz itself (with its blockage) but plus+ a lot of extra SER released and Epi released through the body. Absolutely no reuptake inhibition! Not to mention the H1 blocking is going to give you much improved sleep and weird/cool/stimulating/crazy dreams, something to think about. Also it's great if your appetite is cut by your depression or stimulants like dex, both the case for me.

so definitely go for it. and discuss starting at a higher dose, its pretty bearable at this level, not too sedated. 15mg would cause a lot of sedation i've read. exciting for me too to experience this!

Also why do you say Nardil over Parnate? And why do you think MAOIs are "bad"/ worse than TCAs possibly? +Mirtaz has no effect at all on MAO.

That's really great that pristiq works for you and seems to be just what you need. I hope if you run into trouble with it someday that you can find a solution in mirtaz!

EDIT: P.S. You've said you're psychotic bipolar. What is that like for you, how to you deal with the psychosis and how does it effect you? How does dexedrine affect the psychosis, does it make it worse? Also, could you please describe some of your experiences with having delusions and paranoia of stuff you rationally (but cant at the time) know isnt rational? I think i've had some delusions in the past but im not sure what constitutes ones.. this could affect my treatment if they discover some psychosis!

EDIT 2:
CRAP that is LONG!! Sry if you're the anti-reading ADHD type!

Last edited by tom2228; 06-25-09 at 09:02 PM.. Reason: P.S. added and comment on length
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Old 06-26-09, 03:26 PM
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Re: snri (pristiq) with desoxyn . kinda long but please look if u can help at all,tha

yeah that post was all over the place

keep loggin the remereon if u can, if u wanna pm it or something so it doesnt bother anyone reading this off topic, but id like to hear more. the restlessness might be from a high startin dose?

dex actually helps me out, for others it can make their conditions worse, but then again, im taking it with 2 other very powerful medications that might be masking some negative potential, but i see its potential in causing a problem for someone like me

i guess the only way to deal with any problem is to let yourself. gotta make the emotional feelings of judgement compromise with the logical rational intellect, which the panopticon of surveillance that always reminds me of what happens when societal rules get ignored (aka legal ramifications) helps with. luckily that was embedded very early through strictness, so my upbringing allows me to be more consious of consequences than your "garden variety" bipolar, which in turn lets me know when i should stay away from people or situations that can turn into problems. in a word: awareness

as far as "being" bipolar, id rather not discuss experiences of psychosis, partially because i dont see much difference from normal reality, but that doesnt really matter. its not like fun, or a cool natural trip or anything if thats what your wondering. some say it is, like euphoric mania, but that has its downward slope too,momentarily you may feel untouchable and in touch with the universe, but those delusions can rapidly morph the other way.

i didnt mean for u to start nardil now. i think ur movin too fast. i meant my gf didnt tolerate the other ones i mentioned, so the only other thing aside from remeron for her case that i think is an option is nardil, for her....get me, like her specific symptoms? stick with remeron for at least a month or something, zoloft is pretty good and i dont think u gave it a chance, the side effects tend to diminish, as will remerons.

take it easy.
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