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  #16  
Old 07-16-08, 05:46 AM
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Re: Not sure how this one is gonna fly here...

the word "underemployed" stings me. I could be doing much more and earning three times as much if I had the ambition and organizational skills of many of my peers.
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  #17  
Old 07-23-08, 12:33 AM
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Re: Not sure how this one is gonna fly here...

Oh, yeah... the phrase "a can of worms" comes to mind when I look at the diversity of opinions about drug therapy.

My last two doctors (psychiatrists) have bothered to spend my time and money bad-rapping my medication (Dexedrine 40mg/day). My current doctor's only getting the pleasure of my company and the benefit of my erudition for the second time in a couple of days and I hope he's still trainable (he's young, so there's still hope). My last doctor was my age and he doesn't have ADD so there was no hope of straightening him out -- I lasted three sessions of him telling me the medication was going to kill me or make me insane before bolting for the door; I should have gotten up and left the first time he did his quaint little negative programming dance about the meds he was prescribing me (there were several other issues too... where did all the good doctors go off to? ...it's not just me, is it?). I was thinking, "Wow! This guy is just the sort of positive support that I need to make a go at successful therapy -- NOT!" I mean, what kind of head tripping weirdo tells you that you require a certain medication, provides that medication and then tells you it will kill you? ("G*d d*mn, I say, G*d d*mn the pusher man" - Steppenwolf song). The human race will, no doubt, extinct it's self by self-contradiction.

Dr. D. Amen has said about escalating, high-dosage use of amphetamine (the so-called "binge pattern of abuse") by people with ADD that it's the "right drug; wrong dosage". My understanding about the place of the drugs is that ADD/ADHD is primarily a genetic neurological condition with a 5,000% higher chance than the average person (who ever that is!) of a psychiatric co-morbidity (and a slightly less chance than other of having physical disorders). The way I look at it is that without compensatory medication one risks spending time propagating co-morbidities. Addressing neurological function is foundational.

A while back I was seeing a General Practitioner who was prescribing in ten day units and hunting so hard for some reason to take me off the meds it was starting to seriously get on my nerves. My normal blood pressure is like 127/68 and it started going up 10 points each visit. He actually told me that the ADD was subtle and down there and the BP was something that had to be dealt with first -- that is when I realized that he wasn't a doctor practicing medicine but a para-medic doing triage. He insisted I take that Metaprol (is that it?) BP medication and I actually tried it in the spirit of meeting him half-way. At home I couldn't stand up without getting dizzy but the next time I was in his office my BP went to 165/95. And I said, yet again, that I felt a need for the question that I had asked in the first session about the prognosis for long term drug therapy to be addressed instead of watching him chasing his tail -- or rather my iatrogenic stress as there's nothing like $80 worth of wasted time for one's BP. He did a double take on the chart and saw the BP's pattern of escalation for the first time. He then said, "Well, I'll have to believe you when you say your BP not normally that high because if it was you'd be dead by now... you're too complicated for my practice" Uh... let's see; oh, yeah... my point there is dealing with the ADD is, to me, central. One of his nurses condescendingly ask me if I thought that the ADD medication would fix everything. I go, like; doh! -- of course. Aren't happy, active people healthier people?

I think the (IMHO) nonsense of the War on Drugs (what Bill Hicks called "really a War on Personal Freedom") has, by the pressure of high price, questionable quality, short supply and law enforcement, twisted what are (again, IMHO) some of the more useful and interesting tools discovered to date into patterns of abuse that are then used to justify the War on Drugs. (You can bet that someone is making some money somewhere... hey, what's Ollie North up to these days?) And that this produces the kind of conflict both within the individual and in the society that makes people so easily pushed around and taken advantage of.

All of this is certainly a good example of something.

I don't know if everyone remembers that before 1974 (the year Lilly lost it's license to manufacture amphetamine because it was over-producing and dumping them on the black market AND the year that the US economy plunged into a recession) nearly anyone over the age of 21 could phone a doctor and complain about getting up and going to work in the morning and he would phone in a 'script to the pharmacy for you. My grandfather (who, quite naturally, had undiagnosed ADD/ADHD) used to huff a Benzedrex Inhaler about every ten to twenty minutes and was productive and popular. When they took the Benzedrine (dl-amphetamine) out of the inhalers it killed him... literally, as his growing existential frustration lead to a heart attack while trying to kick a wrinkle out of the living room rug.

I wonder how many people in prison for what is basically a pattern of poor impulse control, risk taking behavior and substance (ab)use have undiagnosed ADD/ADHD.

I wonder if people know that a lot of what's being sold as 'meth' is really N-methyl-cathinone.

I wonder if ADD/ADHD is learned, that is operantly conditioned, brain behavior and some of us are just quicker learners than others.

I wonder if everyone could benefit from ADD medications and some of us are just the squeakiest wheel.

I wonder if Aleister Crowley was spot-on right when he said, "Let heroin, cocaine and the like be freely available to all. Those who abuse them we are better off without".

I wonder if I should ask my new doctor to see if he thinks my symptoms are being effectively controlled.

I wonder if this has addressed usefully any of the issues brought up in this forum thread... oops, too late.

Last edited by JadeEmperor; 07-23-08 at 12:40 AM.. Reason: misspelling and dropped word(s)
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  #18  
Old 07-23-08, 12:40 AM
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Re: Not sure how this one is gonna fly here...

no...
.....not everyone could benifit from ADD meds.

just those of us who wanna shove a knife in our head, or can't function properly.

.....I belive that if people like us were'nt in mental anguish, add meds would be deadly.

as for me, it's deadly not to be on em.

...I went to the shrink because i wanted to die.

and I did'nt CARE about ANYTHING, because i'd just loose it anyway.
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  #19  
Old 07-23-08, 02:49 AM
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Re: Not sure how this one is gonna fly here...

Hi,

You're right, of course. I've seen people get uselessly silly on psycho-stimulants. Like a leaf being swept along or popcorn popping -- which is what I'm like without them. Something else that I had noticed is that (before my diagnosis) when some emergency would occur... somebody dying, a car wreck, somebody with a gun kicking in the door... stuff like that, everyone would get dizzy with adrenaline whereas I would step up and take charge like it was perfectly natural and in a way I couldn't have anticipated by my "normal" half-there condition. I eventually considered that was what tempted risk-taking and what not. A motorcycle 40 mph over the speed limit was a meditational seat for me.

Since the initiation of Me Version 2.0 in Dec. 2005 I've lapsed meds twice. Once for five days after learning a lesson about maintaining securing and the only thing that pulled me out was my doctor (my first one, the good one) barking at me on the phone that I'd gotten by for all my life before without them and I could darned well make it to the end of the week without them. It was the force of his paternalistic command that was the only thing beside what seemed to me at the time to be a time-less grey abyss. The other time was for 25 days by reason of some fools who dared call themselves a clinic (I won't go into that now, I promise). I weathered the first two days telling myself that it was withdrawal and it would be better soon, but on day three I hit an emotional wall where I found myself indulging myself in wondering what the point of any of this was because I was forced to remember that this was Me Version 1.0 now and, frankly, I found that I didn't like him very much at all.

My first doctor (the good one) was of the opinion that even with what he said was the most severe case he'd seen (it was his specialty) I seemed relatively free of psychological co-morbidities. He asked me what I had told myself (note: this is when I still thought kindly of Me Version 1.0) to protect myself from what must have obviously been my failure to fit into any thing that would have looked like "successful" to most people and I said, "Oh, that's easy... I'm right... they're wrong." He managed to shake out any remaining appreciation I had for Me Version 1.0 by saying, "Well, be that as it may... right or wrong, at the end of the day they are still there to deal with."

From that point on I've been pretty intolerant of doctors who tell me about "centralizing the drug" or "dependency". I've quite often asked them if they drove a car to work that morning and what they would do if the car hadn't started... how important would it be for them to get to work that day even if they had to call a taxi or something to get there on time. It's funny (no, odd...) that they quite often don't see the connection when I then describe the medication as my vehicle which with to get to work. Nevertheless, it has come closer to communicating than saying, "You don't have ADD. You've never taken the compensatory medication. What the expletive deleted do you know about any of this anyway?!" People sometimes have a unfortunately low tolerance to the truth of things.

The Buddha pointed out that attachment is the root of suffering and that all is impermanent. You could look at that brief moment of transition of something found becoming something lost as you would look at a flower as it transits from being a seed to being a seed. The trick, I think, about living in (seemingly) linear time is to see moving as the steady state and not trying too much to hold still or reverse the stream. Or as Grace Slick once said, "Life is change; how it differs from the rocks." After all, just 'cause they are still there at the end of the day it still doesn't necessarily make them right.
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  #20  
Old 08-03-08, 11:48 PM
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Re: Not sure how this one is gonna fly here...

i totally feel ur pain and agree with u suzzanne.

the fact that i know i need meds is because i am DYSFUNCTIONAL without them- i have no chance at life and will die one way or the other from the comorid disorders resulting from undiagnosed ahdh. My family, who pre-add were against all drugs, now as urs remind me to take them and know when I'm not. The reason is simple; meds have saved my life -literally.

Its obvious that meds affect those with adhd contradictorily to those without. Most ppl would get hyper with these meds and increase adhd behaviour (impulsiveness, inattn etc) but we calm down, slow down, process, and focus. What i still don't understand is WHY is it so hard for doctors to know who has adhd; give em a pill if u suspect and then watch them after its kicked in. i really don't get why they are so reluctant to prescribe when they can do a simple scientific experiment to evaluate a genuine adhd'er
[quote=SuzzanneX;616628]no...
.....not everyone could benifit from ADD meds.

just those of us who wanna shove a knife in our head, or can't function properly.

.....I belive that if people like us were'nt in mental anguish, add meds would be deadly.

as for me, it's deadly not to be on em.

...I went to the shrink because i wanted to die.

and I did'nt CARE about ANYTHING, because i'd just loose it anyway.[/quote
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  #21  
Old 08-04-08, 12:55 AM
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Re: Not sure how this one is gonna fly here...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzzanneX View Post
....my sanity was replaced with insanity.
My ADHD became so severe, it crippled me mentally.


now..
...I HAVE TO TAKE DRUGS.
or i get in trouble with everyone i come in contact with.
Do you think my breakdown in September of last year, coupled with my sudden drastic use of alcohol and cannabis, and subsequent use of ritalin and dexedrine has made my adhd so bad it makes me insane and cripples me.

Everyone, I am afraid sometimes I will become a schizophrenic soon if not doomed to it.
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  #22  
Old 08-04-08, 07:20 AM
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Re: Not sure how this one is gonna fly here...

I was a self medicator untill i got help, a diagnosis, and the right medication, i don't even think about touching the old drug any more.
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  #23  
Old 08-04-08, 12:14 PM
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Re: Not sure how this one is gonna fly here...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maurice View Post
I find it hard to imagine that the other 64% is going unmedicated! I certainly do not envy them.
prescription medicated.. doesn't mean they dont self medicate.
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  #24  
Old 12-20-08, 03:09 AM
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Re: Not sure how this one is gonna fly here...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imnapl View Post
The article is a scientific discussion. According to studies, medication works. It's been known for a long time that behavior management alone was not as successful as medication alone. The combination of medication and behavior therapy is a win, win situation for people who respond to medication.

I am definitely not brain washed and I forgave society a long time ago.
I guess I still get the vibe that it's taking medication that is still far too often frowned upon socially.
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  #25  
Old 12-20-08, 03:20 AM
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Re: Not sure how this one is gonna fly here...

Quote:
Originally Posted by failurebydesign View Post
i totally feel ur pain and agree with u suzzanne.

the fact that i know i need meds is because i am DYSFUNCTIONAL without them- i have no chance at life and will die one way or the other from the comorid disorders resulting from undiagnosed ahdh. My family, who pre-add were against all drugs, now as urs remind me to take them and know when I'm not. The reason is simple; meds have saved my life -literally.

Its obvious that meds affect those with adhd contradictorily to those without. Most ppl would get hyper with these meds and increase adhd behaviour (impulsiveness, inattn etc) but we calm down, slow down, process, and focus. What i still don't understand is WHY is it so hard for doctors to know who has adhd; give em a pill if u suspect and then watch them after its kicked in. i really don't get why they are so reluctant to prescribe when they can do a simple scientific experiment to evaluate a genuine adhd'er
I am so thankful that I have a GP who was willing to try me on meds right away before I even had an appointment at the behavioural health clinic.
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  #26  
Old 12-20-08, 01:32 PM
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Re: Not sure how this one is gonna fly here...

One study,in and of itself, means very little.

The data on the use of stimulants,which dates back to 1937, is largely positive.

I recently posted on a follow up study regarding the use of stimulants to treat ADHD, reducing the risk of a Substance Use Disorder (SUD).

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  #27  
Old 12-20-08, 10:17 PM
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Re: Not sure how this one is gonna fly here...

The use of stimulant medication for the TREATMENT of a proven, genetically / inherited, neurobiological, brain based, disorder

of inhibition, self-control and working memory, backed by 71 years of empirical (research) support as being an effective

TREATMENT for over 90+% of those (actually) suffering with the disorder, represents the intended purpose of those data.

ADHD is THE most widely researched childhood disorder / developmental disability on earth.

Beginning with the first research study on what we now call ADHD in 1902, we're rapidly approaching 10 K studies, books,

chapters in books, etc.

Those data have combined to show us the nature of the disorder.

Specifically, the METRIC for ( measuring ) ADHD is DEVELOPMENTAL DEVIANCE.

Simply put,when it comes to the difference between medication & (street) drugs,

that's where you "draw the line" between sufferers & substance abusers.

Developmental Deviance is comparing the ADHD individual with their same age /same gender, non-ADHD peers.

They do not experience IMPAIRMENTS ( problems) in their major life activities when displaying the symptoms.

That means the CLINICAL THRESHOLD for ADHD is IMPAIRMENT.

No Impairment. No Disorder.

Comparing a legitimate treatment with the abuse of that same treatment, does nothing to invalidate it.

What it really does is separate appropriate from inappropriate use.

I'm a recovering coke addict / speed freak from the 1970's.

I've been through outpatient treatment twice.

This coming March 25th will be 21 years of taking life "One day at a time."

The length of time is not meant to be egotistical, as I put no greater value than "right now."

It's meant to show that "I get it."

I won't belabor what I've already posted on many times.

All my docs are informed of my recovery.

Currently, I take Adderall & Wellbutrin.

Fortunately for me, my medication makes me sleepy.

If I got a "buzz," I could not / would not take it.

My only hope here is that those of us with the disorder, feel no shame or embarrassment in treating it.


Happy Holidays

&

tc

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SuzX still "rules."
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  #28  
Old 12-20-08, 10:32 PM
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Re: Not sure how this one is gonna fly here...

I forgot to mention that medication represents a personal choice for those suffering with the disorder.

As previously stated, behavior management,which is the only other evidence based treatment besides meds, does work.

The caveat is that the minute you remove the structure of the environment, the ADHD individual's impairments immediately

re appear ( return to baseline).

Using a combination of the two continues to have empirical support as being the most "effective."

Anyway, this is an excellent topic and I have appreciated the input it's generated.

tc

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  #29  
Old 12-21-08, 12:17 AM
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Re: Not sure how this one is gonna fly here...

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Originally Posted by spunkysmum View Post
I guess I still get the vibe that it's taking medication that is still far too often frowned upon socially.
Actually, it's only a very prolific, noisy, minority who frowns on taking medication. You should hang out in my world and see who has disclosed their diagnosis and medication lately.
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