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Desoxyn methamphetamine hydrochloride (also known as desoxyephedrine)

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  #121  
Old 12-19-11, 02:16 AM
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Re: The Holy Grail? -Desoxyn Journal

I have two questions for you kind sir regarding desoxyn. (btw I'm currently on d-amp 10-30 ir a day).

1)I have had some difficulty with sleep on d-amp but have had the blessing
To be rx restoril ( a benzodiazepine) to aid me to crash a lil softer in the evening and ease the come down which has been moderately difficult. The restoril has aided me to atleast sleep and induce peacefulness but on to how this is relevant to my question. How is sleep even feasible on desoxyn?

2) Being on Dexedrine in know I have put my dopamine and norepinephrine transmitters at risk for down regulation and possible damage as well as the inevitable harsh recovery of the balance of these mechanisms if i chose not to continue w/ meds; I have atleast seratonin to rely on as d-amp has negligible impact on this transmitter. This is not the case with desoxyn as it has more involvement with seratonin. How do you deal with the come down of desoxyn I can only imagine how bad it might be granted it appears to be a more gradual decline than d-amp?

Thanks for any input t-dog
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  #122  
Old 12-19-11, 04:33 AM
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Re: The Holy Grail? -Desoxyn Journal

Quote:
Originally Posted by tambourine-man View Post
I don't want to increase the dose because Desoxyn is EXPENSIVE.

As much as I love this medication, it really isn't worth the cost at the dose I need. A month's supply of my current dose costs $500!
Wow, that is absolutely absurd!!! I can't believe a generic medication costs that much! That honestly blows my mind.

I'm lucky to have insurance, so it was $5 for 14 pills but now that I look at the pamphlet it would have been $55.99 without insurance, which if I was using 30mg a day without insurance, a month supply would cost roughly $655

I don't blame you, there's a point where cost isn't worth effects but it's disgusting to me that if you found your (closest thing to a) perfect medication, you would have to stop because of Pharma greed! That seriously disgusts me

So even if it wasn't this elusive, barely ever prescribed medication, it would still be out of grasp for most people due to it's insane cost. No wonder it's not heard of much.
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  #123  
Old 12-19-11, 10:53 AM
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Re: The Holy Grail? -Desoxyn Journal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Marcinko View Post
I have two questions for you kind sir regarding desoxyn. (btw I'm currently on d-amp 10-30 ir a day).

1)I have had some difficulty with sleep on d-amp but have had the blessing
To be rx restoril ( a benzodiazepine) to aid me to crash a lil softer in the evening and ease the come down which has been moderately difficult. The restoril has aided me to atleast sleep and induce peacefulness but on to how this is relevant to my question. How is sleep even feasible on desoxyn?

2) Being on Dexedrine in know I have put my dopamine and norepinephrine transmitters at risk for down regulation and possible damage as well as the inevitable harsh recovery of the balance of these mechanisms if i chose not to continue w/ meds; I have atleast seratonin to rely on as d-amp has negligible impact on this transmitter. This is not the case with desoxyn as it has more involvement with seratonin. How do you deal with the come down of desoxyn I can only imagine how bad it might be granted it appears to be a more gradual decline than d-amp?

Thanks for any input t-dog
I must be weird. I can take 15mg of Desoxyn and lay down for a nice nap. I could do the same thing on Dexedrine. I don't experience crashes.

I will say Desoxyn would probably be less likely to make you crash and easier to get to sleep on.
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  #124  
Old 12-19-11, 02:01 PM
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Re: The Holy Grail? -Desoxyn Journal

@ tambourine-man, Would you say that desoxyn is smoother than vyvanse? I'm currently taking vyvanse and would say that it is alot smoother than the concerta I was taking, almost to the point it may be too smooth if that makes any sense. I would really like to try desoxyn but just don't know if it would last as long a vyvanse. Could you give some comparisons between vyvanse and desoxyn from your experience?
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  #125  
Old 12-19-11, 04:03 PM
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Re: The Holy Grail? -Desoxyn Journal

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Originally Posted by Cocobee View Post
@ tambourine-man, Would you say that desoxyn is smoother than vyvanse? I'm currently taking vyvanse and would say that it is alot smoother than the concerta I was taking, almost to the point it may be too smooth if that makes any sense. I would really like to try desoxyn but just don't know if it would last as long a vyvanse. Could you give some comparisons between vyvanse and desoxyn from your experience?
Desoxyn is smoother than Vyvanse. It is undoubtedly smoother than any other stimulant I've tried. Is this a good thing?

Well, that all depends. Adderall made me a productive robot... but sometimes I miss that state of mind. Yes, my personality is a bit diminished, but life is certainly easier.

Desoxyn feels closer to Vyvanse than Dexedrine, but is easier to control.

My issues with Desoxyn have nothing to do with the medication itself, but the difficulty of paying for it.

Like any other medication, the dose of Desoxyn has to be just right. I need three doses a day, but am currently taking two because anything less than 15mg is too sedating to get anything done. 15-20mg is absolutely perfect, but I can't seem to split my prescribed amount into three effective doses.

As I mentioned, Desoxyn is just far too expensive to increase my dose. I'm considering taking Dexedrine or Adderall in the morning and afternoon, but keeping Desoxyn for the evening when I am more inclined to relax. I don't know if my doctor would go for this, but it would certainly be more affordable and I wouldn't have to give up on the Desoxyn completely.
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  #126  
Old 12-19-11, 04:24 PM
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Re: The Holy Grail? -Desoxyn Journal

I understand that it would be a challange if you didn't have insurance which I see you currently don't. I just don't like the idea of having to take several pills throughout the course of the day. That's just me. I think I may just stick to what I'm currently taking now because I see no point in fixing something that isn't broke. In your case you're having to change different meds because of the shortages that we're all aware of. Thanks for keeping your journal and this thread going as I learn something new everyday from it.
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  #127  
Old 12-19-11, 11:55 PM
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Re: The Holy Grail? -Desoxyn Journal

I collect vintage psychiatric pharmaceutical ads (yes, I know, I have odd fixations). I thought you guys might find this interesting...

Here is a photo of some of the stimulant ads in my collection. To the right, you will see an ad for Desoxyn (you may also notice ads for Dexedrine, Dexamyl, and a vintage Benzedrine inhaler)...





Among the information in the ad is this paragraph...

SMALLER DOSAGE, LONGER EFFECT - It is generally agreed that d-desoxyephedrine, milligram for milligram, is somewhat more potent than amphetamine, so the stimulation desired is achieved with a smaller dose, the onset of effect is more rapid, and the duration longer.

Hmmm... Not much has changed.
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  #128  
Old 12-24-11, 02:32 PM
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Re: The Holy Grail? -Desoxyn Journal

I posted this as a separate thread for maximum exposure, because I'm very interested in seeing what people think.


A great deal of research has led me to conclude that Desoxyn (dextromethamphetamine) is, indeed, more likely to cause neurotoxicity at prescribed doses than other amphetamines.

Technically, Dexedrine (dextroamphetamine) is the amphetamine with the lowest risk of neurotoxicity. Why? Because it induces less Norepinephrine agonism than Adderall (amphetamine/dextroamphetamine mixed salts) and less Serotonin agonism than Desoxyn. Dopamine agonism does not seem to be nearly as harmful. Our brains are more likely to repair dimished dopamine than serotonin.

Methylphenidate is strictly a reuptake inhibitor, which has actually been found to be neuroprotective. I have read that taking a dose of Methylphenidate after your amphetamine will help to prevent potential amphetamine induced neurotoxicity.

Desoxyn's higher potential for neurotoxicity seems to be directly related to it's Serotonin agonism. Taking methylphenidate (a DNRI) after Desoxyn will help to prevent the depletion of dopamine. So...

I'm wondering if taking an SSRI (like Celexa, which I take currently) helps to prevent any potential neurotoxicity caused by Desoxyn's serotonin agonism. Will an SSRI have neuroprotective effects similar to those which methylphenidate has, only with serotonin?

Anyone know?
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  #129  
Old 12-24-11, 03:02 PM
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Re: The Holy Grail? -Desoxyn Journal

Oops, I meant antagonist in all the places I used agonist. Also, I've seen no evidence that therapeutic doses of Desoxyn are significantly neurotoxic, but that the possibility of neurotoxicity is much higher than with other amphetamines.
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  #130  
Old 12-25-11, 12:41 PM
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Re: The Holy Grail? -Desoxyn Journal

I've been asked to provide more detailed information on the abuse potential of Desoxyn.

Due to it's uniquely high affinity for dopamine and serotonin, and comparatively low affinity for norepinephrine, methamphetamine is remarkably tolerable in euphoric doses, making it a far more desirable drug of abuse than amphetamine or dextroamphetamine. However, one must remember than Desoxyn is only available in 5mg doses. The average user of illegally manufactured methamphetamine will typically ingest 500mg or more in single sitting, even in a single dose when administered intravenously.

The same uniquely gentle effects which make methamphetamine more tolerable in euphoria inducing doses also make it far less stimulating than amphetamine or dextroamphetamine in therapeutic doses. Desoxyn is very subtle.

10mg of Adderall or Dexedrine will provide greater subjective stimulation than 10mg of Desoxyn. At therapeutic doses, Desoxyn has a uniquely sedating effect. However, as the dose increases, Desoxyn's recreational value rapidly outshines that of any other prescription stimulant. 60 mg of Adderall or Dexedrine will likely prove more uncomfortable than euphoric for a non-tolerant user. 60mg of Desoxyn will be outrageously euphoric for nearly any user, with significantly less unwanted PNS stimulation to ruin the experience.

Desoxyn, however, is rarely prescribed, very expensive, and available only in 5mg dose. A seasoned speed freak would likely require 100 or more Desoxyn tablets daily. Contrary to popular belief, Desoxyn is likely less pure than much street methamphetamine, though it is doubtlessly cleaner. Desoxyn tablets are largely composed of binders and fillers. When crushed, Desoxyn yields a large pile of powder, very little of which is actually methamphetamine. By comparison, a piece of crystal methamphetamine no larger than a match head may contain several times the amount of methamphetamine found in a single Desoxyn tablet.

Naturally, this makes Desoxyn extremely difficult to abuse via insufflation, inhalation, or injection. Very few veteran methamphetamine addicts consume the drug orally. At roughly $300 per 100 generic tablets, prescription methamphetamine costs approximately six times more than illegally produced product. If you were an addict, would you pay six times more money for a far less recreational version of the same drug?

That said, if Desoxyn was widely available and produced in doses up to 30mg as Adderall is, it would doubtlessly be the most widely abused stimulant available by prescription.
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  #131  
Old 12-26-11, 02:02 AM
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Re: The Holy Grail? -Desoxyn Journal

By adding the extra methyl group to the amphetamine molecule. The new molecule of methamphetamine develops a chiral center. This causes the molecule to become fixed in it atomic positioning. The molecule can now more easly fit into the binding site more tightly in the brain. Increasing it's biological activity.
This moecule was enginered during the second world war to have a stronger amphetamine effect for use in the military.
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Old 12-26-11, 03:47 PM
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Re: The Holy Grail? -Desoxyn Journal

Thanks for this thread Tambourine-man. It fills an information void about desoxyn that I too find perplexing. After following it daily for about 3 weeks, I've setup an appt w/ my doc tomorrow to ask for the switch to desoxyn. I'm on adderall IR 15mg (once in the morning) and the side effects (anxiety, irritability, headaches) have just gotten too much. I really dread taking the stuff. I've also gained a considerable amount of weight on it (40 pounds) as I find myself constantly eating. Food seems to be the only thing that "smooths out" the come down, especially at nights. I really could care less about my weight (although I suppose I should keep an eye on it), but I am concerned that desoxyn might cut my appetite too much. I don't want to shrivel away. What has your experience been w/ appetite suppression? I am assuming when you first started desoxyn the effect was more dramitic (as was mine on adderall). However, I am hoping the appetite suppression effects normalize after a week or so. I'm very interested in your thoughts. Thanks again.
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Old 12-27-11, 05:29 AM
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Re: The Holy Grail? -Desoxyn Journal

Thanks so much T-Man. This has been a wonderful read chalk full of useful information. In my years of treating ADD-PI, I have moved from Concerta -> Concerta + Ritalin -> Adderall IR + XR -> Focalin IR + XR -> Adderall -> Vyvanse -> With multi year break -> until about a month ago landing on Dexedrine IR 10 x3 daily (I had missed one too many doctors appointments and meetings and decided it was time to do something).

What a wonderful medication this is, finally something that gives me hope ADD medication isn't the work of the devil. Prior to dex all the other garbage caused huge anxiety, introversion, major mood swings, sweating, tinnitus, hard core crashes, insomnia, anger, and aggression and the desire to drink, a lot as they wore off.

Thankfully I no longer drink and this all seems so different with Dex, although not consistently. Occasionally the Dex will feel like Adderall with all the unpleasant baggage that made it unbearable. I suppose I should chalk it up to Barr and their manufacturing process.

You sound similar to myself. In your needs and benefits desired from stimulant therapy. Currently I'm on Klonopin for anxiety and the Dexedrine. That said with this shortage I'm terribly worried. Today took 5 hours and 8 pharmacies to find 82 of my 90 pill Rx.

I've read about Desoxyn for years and always had a desire to try it out if for no other reason than to put another notch on the belt. Are you still content with the medicine ? I desire, focus, working memory improvement, mild pro energetic effects, some drive but without the laser hyper focus that can lead me down all sorts of unproductive paths (I write and work in the field of Social Media) and most importantly I desire a medicine that doesn't inhibit my social abilities.

Even with the Dex at work I occasionally hear my old familiar Adderall voice, soft, hindered, apprehensive, and just plain lacking confidence.

With all that said, purely guessing, do you think this medicine might be of benefit to me ? I'm social, can speak fluently (when I can think), but mainly struggle with higher cognitive functions. I.e appointments, organization, memory retention in the short term, and accurately adjusting my behavior to the REAL amount of time I have to accomplish something, if you know what I mean.

Anyway you've inspired me and I think I would like to speak with my (very open) Dr. next visit about Desoxyn. When I'm clear headed, confident, and together I can move mountains, when I'm sweating, anxious, overwhelmed, and unorganized it's a mess. Thanks for any and all input.

Oh ! And last but not least. Does the pharmacy have to order the medication specially for you ? I'm assuming yes but curious nonetheless. Also just for the sake of humor, what sort of looks do you receive when you roll up to the pharmacy with a Desoxyn script in hand ? Anything worth noting ? Thanks again !

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  #134  
Old 12-27-11, 04:12 PM
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Re: The Holy Grail? -Desoxyn Journal

Thanks for all the kind words! I'm really glad this thread is turning into a one stop destination for Desoxyn information. I spent hours scrounging up the information included in this thread. It isn't easy to find...

Ok, lots of questions! Let me just break this down a bit.

Onset: Desoxyn has a very rapid onset. My first dose typically takes effect within five minutes. However, the onset is very subtle and gradual. You have to be very self-aware to notice much effect before the hour mark. Adderall and Dexedrine wake you up in the morning, which brings faster clarity. Desoxyn is the king of clarity, BUT you still have to fight through the early morning fog.

Duration: Desoxyn lasts about an hour longer than Dexedrine. The duration is comparable to Adderall. However, it is effective for the full five hours, without the peaks and valleys of other IR stimulants.

Appetite: My first daily dose of Desoxyn has a mildly anorectic effect. After that I have no problem eating.

Insominia: I must first state that I can sleep in the middle of the day on any stimulant. I have no trouble getting to sleep at night... if I want to. On Adderall I never wanted to sleep. If I was not constantly engaged in a productive activity I was very irritable. Desoxyn has the least impact on my sleep schedule.

Cons: Desoxyn is very rarely prescribed and extremely expensive. If you don't have an open minded physician and good insurance, it probably isn't worth the trouble. Also, Desoxyn can be difficult to dose because it only comes in 5mg tablets. Also, the slightly sedating effect will be undesirable to some. However, this effect also makes it ideal for those with co-morbid anxiety or OCD. Desoxyn is quite anxyolitic.
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Old 01-05-12, 10:07 PM
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Re: The Holy Grail? -Desoxyn Journal

Little Update:


I decided to keep 10mg of Desoxyn for the evenings, but take Adderall during the day to save money. I just don't think $500 for generic Desoxyn is at all cool... But I love my Desoxyn.
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