Choosing the Right Treatment

[NJgabby]

Hi,
My 10 y/0 child was recently diagnosed with ADHD and recommended Amphetamine Salts ER 5 MG. He just needs help paying attention in school. He isn't hyperactive nor disruptive (frankly, he has a wonderful loving and creative personality) and have no idea what to expect. We haven't given it to him yet because we are continuing to do our own research. Plus, this doctor seemed very casual to prescribe and didn't even do a full evaluation, didn't even ask my child a single question. Not a good experience but the doctor is supposed to be "one of the best"? Just not feeling comfortable just yet..

[Caco3girl]

Originally Posted by NJgabby

Hi,
My 10 y/0 child was recently diagnosed with ADHD and recommended Amphetamine Salts ER 5 MG. He just needs help paying attention in school. He isn't hyperactive nor disruptive (frankly, he has a wonderful loving and creative personality) and have no idea what to expect. We haven't given it to him yet because we are continuing to do our own research. Plus, this doctor seemed very casual to prescribe and didn't even do a full evaluation, didn't even ask my child a single question. Not a good experience but the doctor is supposed to be "one of the best"? Just not feeling comfortable just yet..

ALL ADHD meds are hit or miss...and there is no precursor to say which one will work the best for your kid. It isn't like other types of medicine that work better if you are more active, or if you don't drink alcohol, or are female, or whatnot. All you can do is try one, see if it works, if it doesn't move to the next one. There aren't any questions they can ask prior to taking the medicine.

Both of my kids are on that medicine and both still have a personality. If you have heard that a kid turns into a zombie then that kid is OVER medicated. My son is ADD my daughter is AHD, and again, both have shining personalities. Now that my daughter can sit in class she is learning much more. Now that my son is mentally present in class his grades with through the roof! The medicine has been a complete game changer for both of them for school. Start it ASAP would be my advice.

[Lunacie]

Originally Posted by NJgabby

Hi,
My 10 y/0 child was recently diagnosed with ADHD and recommended Amphetamine Salts ER 5 MG. He just needs help paying attention in school. He isn't hyperactive nor disruptive (frankly, he has a wonderful loving and creative personality) and have no idea what to expect. We haven't given it to him yet because we are continuing to do our own research. Plus, this doctor seemed very casual to prescribe and didn't even do a full evaluation, didn't even ask my child a single question. Not a good experience but the doctor is supposed to be "one of the best"? Just not feeling comfortable just yet..

That does seem a bit casual. When my granddaughter was diagnosed 10 years
ago, our family doc had us fill out parent evaluation forms, and had her home
room teacher fill out an evaluation form. He based his diagnosis on what he
saw for himself and what the forms told him.

She started out on Concerta which worked very well. The poor kid who argued
with everything was able to process what she was hearing and give a rational
answer instead of being frustrated and angry with herself. Later she was
switched to Vyvanse and had a bad skin reaction as well as it not working.
Then she was switched to Adderall and didn't like the way it made her feel.

There are so many meds and formulas now that most can find one that works
well with few or no side effects. And there's also a swab DNA test that can help
understand which meds are most likely to help. We did that test with my other
granddaughter (ASD) to know which meds to try for mood and anxiety control.

[sarahsweets]

Originally Posted by NJgabby

Hi,
My 10 y/0 child was recently diagnosed with ADHD and recommended Amphetamine Salts ER 5 MG. He just needs help paying attention in school. He isn't hyperactive nor disruptive (frankly, he has a wonderful loving and creative personality) and have no idea what to expect. We haven't given it to him yet because we are continuing to do our own research. Plus, this doctor seemed very casual to prescribe and didn't even do a full evaluation, didn't even ask my child a single question. Not a good experience but the doctor is supposed to be "one of the best"? Just not feeling comfortable just yet..

It seems casual yet not unheard of. The bottom line is that you want to help your child. Stimulants are a first line treatment of adhd and the best thing to try. If you are uncomfortable, go back and get some clarification on the diagnosis or fill out a conner's scale. If you feel like the diagnosis is correct and its just that you are scared of stimulants then do not be dissuaded by the crazy antimed stuff you read. Those sites are meant to terrify parents that only want to help their kids. You will know within 2 days to a week if the meds help or not and if there are side effects. You cant stop the meds immediately if need be with no ill affects. I urge you to consider giving it a go.

[daveddd]

Originally Posted by NJgabby

Hi,
My 10 y/0 child was recently diagnosed with ADHD and recommended Amphetamine Salts ER 5 MG. He just needs help paying attention in school. He isn't hyperactive nor disruptive (frankly, he has a wonderful loving and creative personality) and have no idea what to expect. We haven't given it to him yet because we are continuing to do our own research. Plus, this doctor seemed very casual to prescribe and didn't even do a full evaluation, didn't even ask my child a single question. Not a good experience but the doctor is supposed to be "one of the best"? Just not feeling comfortable just yet..

did the doctor ask anyone any questions?

you said he needs help paying attention, so did you say that to the doctor?


I only ask because kids with ADHD generally lack self awareness, so he probably got the info he needed from you

[Numbawunfela]

Originally Posted by NJgabby

Plus, this doctor seemed very casual to prescribe and didn't even do a full evaluation, didn't even ask my child a single question. Not a good experience but the doctor is supposed to be "one of the best"? Just not feeling comfortable just yet..

I had a similar experience. My first doc spent 2 to 3 minutes before handing me a perscription for 70mg adderal instant release. It was like a ton of bricks. The diagnosis was 'doc, I think I might have ADD...how do you diagnose this?' 'Here is your perscription'
My second doc had some hurdles and spent about an hour total between questionnaires and other things before giving meds. Then it was as little as possible, slowly increasing in dose, wuth regular checks in the form of 'are you sure?'. With a hard 30mg ceiling so it would be less likely to be habit forming.
Even if he was off base the caution was reassuring.

I ended up doing Neurofeedback and I am off my meds completely. I would reccomend that wholeheartedly. Meds are a more ham-fisted approach. My neurofeedback doc says 'this here in your brain map shows you have issues finding the right words for things, the next 5 sessions will deal with that.'
They can also identify patients that do not respond well to standard stimulant treatments and help them get the right meds to give them functionality until the treatments get them off meds altogeher.

[sarahsweets]

What do you mean when you say "ham fisted"?

Originally Posted by Numbawunfela

I had a similar experience. My first doc spent 2 to 3 minutes before handing me a perscription for 70mg adderal instant release. It was like a ton of bricks. The diagnosis was 'doc, I think I might have ADD...how do you diagnose this?' 'Here is your perscription'
My second doc had some hurdles and spent about an hour total between questionnaires and other things before giving meds. Then it was as little as possible, slowly increasing in dose, wuth regular checks in the form of 'are you sure?'. With a hard 30mg ceiling so it would be less likely to be habit forming.
Even if he was off base the caution was reassuring.

I ended up doing Neurofeedback and I am off my meds completely. I would reccomend that wholeheartedly. Meds are a more ham-fisted approach. My neurofeedback doc says 'this here in your brain map shows you have issues finding the right words for things, the next 5 sessions will deal with that.'
They can also identify patients that do not respond well to standard stimulant treatments and help them get the right meds to give them functionality until the treatments get them off meds altogeher.

[Numbawunfela]

Originally Posted by sarahsweets

What do you mean when you say "ham fisted"?

I could be wrong, but I doubt there is a medications based approach that could target a patient's inability to find the words he is looking for specifically, without affecting another aspect of his brain function, either adversely or positively. Just as an example. My treatment had at least 5 different phases, each designed to target a specific aspect of my personal diagnosis.

Meds seem to stimulate in a more indiscriminate way. Of course I am not only not a medical professional, but I did not spend years trying to nail down a medication like some have, so I may be wrong.

[Lunacie]

Originally Posted by Numbawunfela

I could be wrong, but I doubt there is a medications based approach that could target a patient's inability to find the words he is looking for specifically, without affecting another aspect of his brain function, either adversely or positively. Just as an example. My treatment had at least 5 different phases, each designed to target a specific aspect of my personal diagnosis.

Meds seem to stimulate in a more indiscriminate way. Of course I am not only not a medical professional, but I did not spend years trying to nail down a medication like some have, so I may be wrong.

I think stimulant meds can often improve quite a few different symptoms,
including being able to think more linearly and think of the words that he or she
wants to use.

That was the main symptom that I saw improve when I began taking Omega 3
supplements. No more staring at the computer screen trying to remember the
word I wanted to use to explain something. No more reading back through
something I had posted and wondering what I was thinking at the time. And
no more having people I was talking to ask me "Did you mean "this" instead of
"that"?

Neurofeedback may be helpful as well, but it doesn't have the research that
backs up the results the way stimulant meds do.

[Numbawunfela]

Originally Posted by Lunacie

That was the main symptom that I saw improve when I began taking Omega 3
supplements.

Neurofeedback may be helpful as well, but it doesn't have the research that
backs up the results the way stimulant meds do.

See now that is why I try not to be too dogmatic, you had the exact experience I was assuming was not possible . Glad it worked for you.

Looking for the right word was just an example, The point being nobody is going to credibly say 'trouble finding the right word in a conversation, exactly 6 doses of 300mg omega 3 will fix that right up.' On the other hand, where I was going for Neurofeedback therapy, there was a clear indication from A test that is replicable that this was an issue. I did not bring it up, I got told it was an issue at my consultation - and they were spot on.
Then they had a course of treatments set aside for just that, and it worked awesomely.

Yes meds can work, and they do for a lot of people, ,and they are indispensable for many, however... the approach is more 'try omega 3 and see if it works', 'stim meds work for most, but some do not respond well and we do not know why', 'many see improvemnts with most symptoms usually, but you may want to try something else as well' There is little that is hard fast clear quick definite with meds, in that sense it seems ham fisted. At least in my limited experience. You may have seen it work differently.

As for research, that is changing. You may want to look at a series of posts over here:

Originally Posted by Numbawunfela

https://www.dropbox.com/s/414nu1ln31...81%29.pdf?dl=0

That is a study demonstrating structural changes as a result of Neurofeedback, but is not ADD specific.here is a LONG article you can download to help provide research on NFB efficacy. In the posts from this thread I make several quotes, in case fishing through 450 pages of research papers is not your thing....

Originally Posted by Numbawunfela

From Introduction to Quantitative EEG and Nerofeedback

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tbr3bp4xnl...dback.pdf?dl=0


Note that the web site for the National Resource Center on AD / HD, a program of CHADD, has an information sheet that critiques NFB as an alternative treatment for AD / HD. It notes that the CHADD Professional Advisory Board (PAB) rates NFB at Level 2 Effi cacy ( “possibly effi cacious ”) on the APA scale, and also just at the second level “Option” according to the AACAP guidelines. It mentions that some researchers rate the efficacy higher. And there is the comment that, even if efficacy were established, NFB is costly and cumbersome. The article reviews eight controlled studies concerning NFB, and finds them all flawed in one way or another.....Clearly CHADD is going to hold NFB to a very high standard, but at least it is being mentioned.

[sarahsweets]

Originally Posted by Numbawunfela

See now that is why I try not to be too dogmatic, you had the exact experience I was assuming was not possible . Glad it worked for you.

Looking for the right word was just an example, The point being nobody is going to credibly say 'trouble finding the right word in a conversation, exactly 6 doses of 300mg omega 3 will fix that right up.' On the other hand, where I was going for Neurofeedback therapy, there was a clear indication from A test that is replicable that this was an issue. I did not bring it up, I got told it was an issue at my consultation - and they were spot on.
Then they had a course of treatments set aside for just that, and it worked awesomely.

But the same can be said for neurofeedback. They are using their knowledge to sell you a treatment that may or may not work. I do not know what degrees you need to provide neurofeedback. I am not trying to say that its crap its just that it hasnt received enough research to be considered a first line treatment for adhd whereas medications like dexedrine have been around for 70 years and have tons of peer reviewed research.

Yes meds can work, and they do for a lot of people, ,and they are indispensable for many, however... the approach is more 'try omega 3 and see if it works', 'stim meds work for most, but some do not respond well and we do not know why', 'many see improvemnts with most symptoms usually, but you may want to try something else as well' There is little that is hard fast clear quick definite with meds, in that sense it seems ham fisted. At least in my limited experience. You may have seen it work differently.

I am trying to understand what you mean by "clear quick definite" can you explain more?

As for research, that is changing. You may want to look at a series of posts over here:



That is a study demonstrating structural changes as a result of Neurofeedback, but is not ADD specific.here is a LONG article you can download to help provide research on NFB efficacy. In the posts from this thread I make several quotes, in case fishing through 450 pages of research papers is not your thing....

I am not trying to pick on your so please do not think that. I looked up the company that published this study or article and its basically an academic publishing company that you pay to have something published. So there isnt as much oversight for any claims made in the articles that it publishes. That is not to say that the work there is all bad but it is something to think about. Someone could have an agenda and get their work out there by paying for it.

[Lunacie]

Originally Posted by Numbawunfela

That is a study demonstrating structural changes as a result of Neurofeedback, but is not ADD specific.here is a LONG article you can download to help provide research on NFB efficacy. In the posts from this thread I make several quotes, in case fishing through 450 pages of research papers is not your thing....

The article reviews eight controlled studies concerning NFB, and finds them all flawed in one way or another.....Clearly CHADD is going to hold NFB to a very high standard, but at least it is being mentioned.

When finding a treatment for a child, I'd prefer that it had been held to a high
standard. Sadly, in the ASD community I've seen many parents who were so
desperate to "cure" their child that they would try any treatment, and some of
the treatments have been and continue to be quite horrendous.

For me, it was a fluke that I found Omega 3 to be beneficial. I began taking it
to help with menopause symptoms and was quite surprised to find that it was
helping my brain fog. I went online to see if there was any research for using to treat ADHD and found that it had been tested with mixed results.

Of course, the results for most stimulant meds are mixed as well. Some respond
better to one kind of stimulant than another.

So when it came to treating my oldest ADHD granddaughter and my youngest
ASD granddaughter, we (my adult daughter and I) did a lot of reading, and
talked with the psychiatrist about possible side effects and risks before agreeing
to trial any meds. But the risk of not medicating/treating at all was clearly, to
our minds, worse than most of the side effects of research-proven treatments.

[Numbawunfela]

Originally Posted by sarahsweets

I am trying to understand what you mean by "clear quick definite" can you explain more?

Originally Posted by Numbawunfela

Yes meds can work, and they do for a lot of people, ,and they are indispensable for many, however... the approach is more 'try omega 3 and see if it works', 'stim meds work for most, but some do not respond well and we do not know why', 'many see improvemnts with most symptoms usually, but you may want to try something else as well'

VS

Originally Posted by Numbawunfela

On the other hand, where I was going for Neurofeedback therapy, there was a clear indication from A test that is replicable that this was an issue. I did not bring it up, I got told it was an issue at my consultation - and they were spot on.
Then they had a course of treatments set aside for just that, and it worked awesomely.

The approaches described seem VERY different. The second seems much more "clear quick definite". Would you not agree?

Originally Posted by sarahsweets

I am not trying to pick on your so please do not think that. I looked up the company that published this study or article and its basically an academic publishing company that you pay to have something published.

Helpful! I saw it as a textbook publishing company. Honestly it reads like that more than a research paper. In the quotes from the other thread, it points to a lot of others work, inviting more inquiry. I may bother the place I go for a few more articles. I view 'pay to publish' with suspicion, not rejection. Especially when the format is not a peer reviewed study, but a textbook that typically gets published that way. AND when the paid thing, references a lot of peer reviewed stuff. Then it makes it easier to find, like a phone book does.
I appreciate the civility! I know I am advocating for a view that is not mainstream, if it is a valid view, criticle examination only makes it more solid.

[Numbawunfela]

I hope you all appreciate how hard it is to post quotes like this from a mobile phone with fat fingers...

Hehe

[Jasont]

Hello. Has anyone had good or bad results from the Drake Institute in Southern California. We’re trying to decide what treatment to use for our 16 year old sophomore. Any feedback would be very helpful. Thank you