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  #1  
Old 08-07-12, 11:38 AM
lemming lemming is offline
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Fatigue

Curious as to the relationship between ADHD-PI and fatigue, it seems a lot of Inattentives have problems with fatigue (or sleep problems that contribute to that). In the last 1 1/2 years, I've developed episodes of bone crushing fatigue + muscle aches. The routine blood test I took came back normal. It seems my system gets overloaded a lot more easily, and I am much slower to bounce back- I had just a mild throat infection last week- the actual throat infection lasted maybe 2-3 days, but after I recovered, the bone-crushing fatigue came back. I suspect a lot of it has to do with my coping skills getting overwhelmed by my increasing symptoms, that causes me to burn out a lot more. I guess it's a chicken and egg thing? I should probably add that alternative therapies have probably helped my energy levels most. Anyone else having on-off periods of fatigue?
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Old 08-07-12, 12:42 PM
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Re: Fatigue

Alternative therapies like meditation, or something else entirely? I tried meditation and it helps with my ADHD and the other problems you listed. I have a lot of stress in my daily life so it helped a bunch there too. Tylenol and ibuprofen had no effect on the aches, I don't know if this is the same with you. The fatigue is usually worse when I'm not sleeping well, which of course makes sense. I'm taking trazadone and hydroxyzine for stress and sleep right now. They both help to varying levels, but I may start looking for something that works better soon.

My blood tests were normal also, and I have the same symptoms of fatigue. I get these throat infections, about 1 every month also. I just moved to Florida 10 months ago, and when I did the symptoms I already had became much worse. Got checked out for allergies because I figured that may have been part of the problem. Turns out I'm allergic to soy. Since I work out a bunch, my intake of cliff bars, whey protein, etc. is huge. So I'm trying to avoid it for a couple weeks. I'm hoping this helps. If you or anybody else has any tips, give a holla.
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Old 08-07-12, 12:53 PM
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Re: Fatigue

have you had a western blot test for lymes disease?
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Old 08-08-12, 04:16 AM
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Re: Fatigue

I've noticed the connection too, but I don't know the answer :-(
I can have bad fatigue, but no pains or aches as some other people like yourself have.
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Old 08-08-12, 01:22 PM
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Re: Fatigue

From my experience only, I believe fibromyalgia (with varying degrees of severity) is related to ADHD. My earliest memories are of fatigue - of a brain fog that feels like a parasite in my head sucking the life out of me - at the age of three I can remember being too tired to stand up, to walk anywhere, constantly tired, and so irritable, frustrated, and listless, and school was agony - and you can't tell people who don't have this that this is NOT depression. At night I would feel more alert, or if I got really excited while talking or arguing, or sometimes for no reason,or if I ate lots of sugary carbs, or sometimes after intense exercise I would be transformed - my arms would stop aching, I no longer felt exhausted, 100 years old, so weak and so on. I even believe, and no doubt everyone will disagree, that SCT is NOT a separate disorder. Not that it isn't possible for attention disorders to extend way beyond the current research, or that some people might not have something that fits a separate diagnosis, but that in my case I don't feel it fits.

If you look up dopamine deficieny the list of symptoms looks like
SCT and/or fibromyalgia (and there is also a link between binge eating and fibromyalgia as there is a link between binge eating and ADHD and as there is a link between fibromyalgia and ADHD - all potentially have dopamine deficiency as a link). I think fatigue with ADHD is severe dopamine deficiency - I believe hyperactivity results from when the deficiency is actually less or its a question of speed of reuptake (lots of people with the H don't have problems with initiation), and you still have the physical energy to hunt for stimulation. At my most severely depleted, I'm fatigued, and when my levels are raised I'm more hyperactive. How can dopamine deficiency make some people(esp.boys) hyperactive but provide symptoms of fatigue, lethargy, lack of motivation, light headednedd, brain fog etc. when under the lable of "dopamine deficiency"?

I am not a sweet little Care Bear, I felt like a Tasmanian Devil buried under a fog of fatigue - ambitious but no motivation, wanted to do a thousand things, wanted to do nothing - it's not like anything you can explain to anyone because it goes so far beyond what any normal person can understand - unless you feel this way you just don't get it and such people always want to give lots of rational explanations like vitamin deficiency, sleep patterns, depression, Lyme's disease, good diet, exercise etc, to explain it because that's the only way they can understand this kind of fatigue - because it just doesn't make rational sense.

At 32 and waiting to be diagnosed, I just lost it, my symptoms had been getting worse during my 20s (I thought that was impossible), the brain fog could last all day and night, any sleep made it worse (dopamine/ norepinephrine drop during sleep), my speech was slurred, my bones felt hollowed out, I was banging into furniture, and tripping over my feet - only lots of sugary food helped, my body would feel a bit better after exercise but my head didn't (in my early 20s exercise transformed me, though it was agonising to do) - so I took some diet pills containing ephedra, yohimbe etc. and for one week, while they worked, it was the best week of my life - I was calm, energised, motivated (never, ever been before for anything), clear headed etc. I was neither fatigued nor was my head bouncing around hyperactively, but all the other ADHD symptoms were still severe. The pills stopped working, my symptoms returned.

Then I tried taking large amounts of l-glutamine powder and l-tyrosine powder and have been doing so for 9 months - this, without ADHD medication, has been, physically, the best months of my life and the most consistant in terms of energy- I have not experienced any pain in my body, only 2 episodes of lightheadedness upon standing... However the lightheaded/ brain fog feeling remained - not as severe, not always, but still there. I now also take a mult-B vit. tablet, a copper tablet and a magnesium tablet before I take the l-tyrosine and I still sometimes take ephedrine and yohimbe (this is not a recommendation for anyone else to do so). Since then no brain lightheadedness / fog, just all the other debilitating ADHD symptoms that were buried under the fog but always felt present . How is it possible to feel restless but cripplingly fatigued and lethargic and the same time? It was like the brain naturally producing its own sedative - which makes sense that it feels like this because sedatives usually deplete the excitatory neurotransmitters. - yet sedation feels nothing like calmness and when it's involuntary it feels unbearable (a sort of cognitive rohypnol). I will soon be getting medication - so who knows what I'll experence next.

Last edited by APSJ; 08-08-12 at 08:03 PM.. Reason: added paragraph breaks
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  #6  
Old 08-08-12, 04:41 PM
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Re: Fatigue

I can imagine that it must be exhausting constantly trying and struggling to pay attention or to focus. Stressful as well and that could add to your tiredness too.
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Old 08-08-12, 05:30 PM
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Re: Fatigue

I was also going to mention the possibility of FibroMyalgia. Google it.

I dont' know what else samson talks about in his post, I can't read past the first 2 lines as it's a wall-o-text and it all becomes alphabet soup to my eyes/brain.
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Old 08-08-12, 07:15 PM
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Re: Fatigue

You probably haven't done any 24 hour cortisol tests, correct?

The results of this test (whether high or low (depending on what stage you're in)), combined with what you wrote (Are you saying that you felt better energy-wise during the throat infection???????????? ------------ How is your sleep? ---------------- Do you happen to have the problem of falling asleep easily at night, but pretty much always wake up after like 4, 5, or 6 hours or something and absolutely cannot (or have a lot of trouble) fall back asleep? ----------------- Do you happen to sleep a full night, but end up being much more tired when it's time to start the day, than when you went to bed at night? --------------- I don't know much about sleep apnea, but if your sleep sucks, can anybody observe or can you film your breathing during sleep?), and other stuff like dizziness upon standing up (or even after you've been standing for quite a while, or even when sitting up not against a seat back, or when just lying on your side with your head propped up or something), problems with reactive and\or fasting hypoglycemia - (do you ever check yours?) and relying on carbs and\or caffeine and\or nicotine to keep your energy up enough for you to just be able to function, and stuff like this could help clue you in to sub-Addison's adrenal fatigue\insufficiency. If that's the case, then avoiding caffeine and nicotine, and eating a lower carb and lower glycemic index and lower glycemic load diet, and getting enough sleep, and avoiding too much work and stress could help improve things, assuming it's not autoimmune. Also, 24 hour cortisol tests can be ordered online, taken at home, and mailed back to the lab to get your results.
--------------------------

As far as everything being in range, check out this (and note that the high end number for TSH on many test result reports is FIVE, and is three on lots of others):

Check out this document from the American Thyroid Association.

At the top of page 9 it says:

"TSH (thyroid-stimulating hormone) is the most important and sensitive test for
hypothyroidism. TSH is a simple blood test that measures how much T4 the thyroid
gland is being asked to make. An abnormally high TSH means hypothyroidism: The
thyroid gland is being asked to make more T4 because there isnít enough T4 in the blood."


In the bottom half of page 18 it says:

"The goal of treatment is to get
and keep your TSH in the normal range. The American Thyroid Association
recommends that your doctor try to keep your TSH within a narrow range of 0.5 to 2.0
mU/L. Within this range, your body gets the best possible amount of thyroxine and
youíre likely to feel the best."

"Itís normal for your TSH levels to vary because the pituitary sends out TSH in pulses

rather than a steady stream, and because TSH levels normally go up at night and come
down during the day."


--------------------------

Do you mind posting pictures of your blood test results (minus all personal info)? How did you feel during the test?

--------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by lemming85 View Post
I should probably add that alternative therapies have probably helped my energy levels most.
Care to elaborate?
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Last edited by avjgirsijdhtjhs; 08-08-12 at 07:37 PM..
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  #9  
Old 08-14-12, 03:28 AM
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Re: Fatigue

Thanks heaps, and sorry for the late reply! I've got to dig my report up... Have no idea where it's disappeared to- but from what I remember my TSH levels were normal.
My sleep problems are mainly having a lot of trouble falling asleep, once I do fall asleep, I generally can get my 8 hours. If I manage to fall asleep earlier, I usually end up waking up and find myself unable to go back to sleep. More recently, sometimes I'm also woken up by terrible discomfort in my legs (is this RLS?) and kept awake for hours by them. I used to have that problem when I was a little kid but itwent away, I've no idea why it's back again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by avjgirsijdhtjhs View Post
You probably haven't done any 24 hour cortisol tests, correct?

The results of this test (whether high or low (depending on what stage you're in)), combined with what you wrote (Are you saying that you felt better energy-wise during the throat infection???????????? ------------ How is your sleep? ---------------- Do you happen to have the problem of falling asleep easily at night, but pretty much always wake up after like 4, 5, or 6 hours or something and absolutely cannot (or have a lot of trouble) fall back asleep? ----------------- Do you happen to sleep a full night, but end up being much more tired when it's time to start the day, than when you went to bed at night? --------------- I don't know much about sleep apnea, but if your sleep sucks, can anybody observe or can you film your breathing during sleep?), and other stuff like dizziness upon standing up (or even after you've been standing for quite a while, or even when sitting up not against a seat back, or when just lying on your side with your head propped up or something), problems with reactive and\or fasting hypoglycemia - (do you ever check yours?) and relying on carbs and\or caffeine and\or nicotine to keep your energy up enough for you to just be able to function, and stuff like this could help clue you in to sub-Addison's adrenal fatigue\insufficiency. If that's the case, then avoiding caffeine and nicotine, and eating a lower carb and lower glycemic index and lower glycemic load diet, and getting enough sleep, and avoiding too much work and stress could help improve things, assuming it's not autoimmune. Also, 24 hour cortisol tests can be ordered online, taken at home, and mailed back to the lab to get your results.
--------------------------

As far as everything being in range, check out this (and note that the high end number for TSH on many test result reports is FIVE, and is three on lots of others):

Check out this document from the American Thyroid Association.

At the top of page 9 it says:

"TSH (thyroid-stimulating hormone) is the most important and sensitive test for
hypothyroidism. TSH is a simple blood test that measures how much T4 the thyroid
gland is being asked to make. An abnormally high TSH means hypothyroidism: The
thyroid gland is being asked to make more T4 because there isnít enough T4 in the blood."


In the bottom half of page 18 it says:

"The goal of treatment is to get
and keep your TSH in the normal range. The American Thyroid Association
recommends that your doctor try to keep your TSH within a narrow range of 0.5 to 2.0
mU/L. Within this range, your body gets the best possible amount of thyroxine and
youíre likely to feel the best."

"Itís normal for your TSH levels to vary because the pituitary sends out TSH in pulses

rather than a steady stream, and because TSH levels normally go up at night and come
down during the day."


--------------------------

Do you mind posting pictures of your blood test results (minus all personal info)? How did you feel during the test?

--------------------------



Care to elaborate?
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