ADD Forums - Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder Support and Information Resources Community  

Go Back   ADD Forums - Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder Support and Information Resources Community > SCIENTIFIC DISCUSSIONS, RESEARCH, NEWS AND EVENTS > Current ADD Events & News > ADD News
Register Blogs FAQ Chat Members List Calendar Donate Gallery Arcade Mark Forums Read

ADD News News from around the world about ADD/ADHD, other disorders, and some rather bizzarre & strange stories.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #106  
Old 01-28-14, 10:40 AM
daveddd daveddd is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: May 2009
Location: cleveland
Posts: 9,187
Thanks: 10,954
Thanked 11,399 Times in 5,569 Posts
daveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond repute
Re: ADHD does not exist according to Neurologist Richard Saul

i think you are giving it your own interpretation


which is your right

but ill stick with the professionals
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?...veness+barkley
__________________
now is the time ...for me to rise to my feet...wipe your spit from my face...wipe these tears from my eyes!!...hatebreed
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 01-28-14, 10:50 AM
daveddd daveddd is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: May 2009
Location: cleveland
Posts: 9,187
Thanks: 10,954
Thanked 11,399 Times in 5,569 Posts
daveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond repute
Re: ADHD does not exist according to Neurologist Richard Saul

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?...amily+conflict


and here joel nigg says the opposite of what you say he says


i don't take any of this stuff as fact yet

but to state things as facts when they aren't, can only impede progress in the research and treatment of adhd

not help it
__________________
now is the time ...for me to rise to my feet...wipe your spit from my face...wipe these tears from my eyes!!...hatebreed
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old 01-28-14, 12:29 PM
mildadhd mildadhd is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: North America
Posts: 11,985
Thanks: 1,852
Thanked 1,275 Times in 963 Posts
mildadhd has disabled reputation
Re: ADHD does not exist according to Neurologist Richard Saul

Basic emotion systems come from the brain stem area and are more mature at birth than higher control systems.

These higher control systems mature when lower basic emotions interact with experience.

At birth affective (feelings) consciousness is dominant.

As we mature cognitive consciousness matures, and a more balanced relationship develops between lower basic emotion systems and higher cognitive systems.


We also experience secondary emotion that occur after basic emotion interacts with personal experience and higher brain systems


So there are basic emotions we are all born with, that higher brain systems are developed upon, and more complex secondary emotions felt after cognition matures.

Without basic (primary) emotion systems, cognition and secondary emotions would not exist.


Most research I have read focuses on the secondary emotions felt after interacting with higher cognition, which I agree with.

While true, my question is what role do basic emotions we are all born with, have in the development (or underdevelopment) of higher cognitive systems.?

(particularly the right orbito frontal cortex which development seems most interfered with, if we are focusing specifically on ADHD)

My question in this thread is not about secondary emotion, as a result of having underdeveloped higher cognitive system.

The question involving secondary emotions is also a good question, that has been explored more, but not the question I am specifically asking.


Laymans
__________________
"When people are suffering mentally, they want to feel better葉hey want to stop having bad emotions and start having good emotions." (-Temple Grandin)

Last edited by mildadhd; 01-28-14 at 12:59 PM..
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #109  
Old 01-28-14, 01:16 PM
Amtram's Avatar
Amtram Amtram is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Toms River, NJ
Posts: 10,509
Blog Entries: 10
Thanks: 20,928
Thanked 17,520 Times in 7,316 Posts
Amtram has a reputation beyond reputeAmtram has a reputation beyond reputeAmtram has a reputation beyond reputeAmtram has a reputation beyond reputeAmtram has a reputation beyond reputeAmtram has a reputation beyond reputeAmtram has a reputation beyond reputeAmtram has a reputation beyond reputeAmtram has a reputation beyond reputeAmtram has a reputation beyond reputeAmtram has a reputation beyond repute
Re: ADHD does not exist according to Neurologist Richard Saul

Quote:
Originally Posted by daveddd View Post
i think you are giving it your own interpretation


which is your right

but ill stick with the professionals
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?...veness+barkley
From the abstract: Emotional impulsiveness (EI) may be a central feature of attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) contributing impairment beyond the two ADHD dimensions of inattention and hyperactivity-impulsivity.

Meaning that these are caused by the ADHD, and can make it worse. But the emotional issues are "central features" of the disorder.
__________________
"Living well is the best revenge." G.B. Shaw
"I'm easily swayed by robust scientific evidence." Amtram
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Amtram For This Useful Post:
Stevuke79 (01-28-14)
  #110  
Old 01-28-14, 01:21 PM
Amtram's Avatar
Amtram Amtram is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Toms River, NJ
Posts: 10,509
Blog Entries: 10
Thanks: 20,928
Thanked 17,520 Times in 7,316 Posts
Amtram has a reputation beyond reputeAmtram has a reputation beyond reputeAmtram has a reputation beyond reputeAmtram has a reputation beyond reputeAmtram has a reputation beyond reputeAmtram has a reputation beyond reputeAmtram has a reputation beyond reputeAmtram has a reputation beyond reputeAmtram has a reputation beyond reputeAmtram has a reputation beyond reputeAmtram has a reputation beyond repute
Re: ADHD does not exist according to Neurologist Richard Saul

Quote:
Originally Posted by daveddd View Post
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?...amily+conflict


and here joel nigg says the opposite of what you say he says


i don't take any of this stuff as fact yet

but to state things as facts when they aren't, can only impede progress in the research and treatment of adhd

not help it
I don't see that anywhere. Here's the abstract:

Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) is a prime candidate for exploration of gene-by-environment interaction (i.e., G x E), particularly in relation to dopamine system genes, due to strong evidence that dopamine systems are dysregulated in the disorder. Using a G x E design, we examined whether the DRD4 promoter 120-bp tandem repeat polymorphism, previously associated with ADHD, moderated the effects of inconsistent parenting and marital conflict on ADHD or Oppositional-Defiant Disorder (ODD). Participants were 548 children with ADHD and non-ADHD comparison children and their parents. Homozygosity for the DRD4 promoter 120-bp tandem repeat insertion allele increased vulnerability for ADHD and ODD only in the presence of inconsistent parenting and appeared to increase susceptibility to the influence of increased child self-blame for marital conflict on ADHD inattention. DRD4 genotypes may interact with these proximal family environmental risk factors by increasing the individual's responsivity to environmental contingencies.


Nigg's focus is on the genetic inheritance model of ADHD, and here he's explaining that the genes that cause the vulnerability are responsible for the emotional sensitivity. He is, to clarify, stating that the emotional vulnerability is inherent to the condition and comes first, but that (as in the previous citation) it can be a self-reinforcing factor in which the inborn trait of emotional vulnerability leads to extreme reactions to emotional stress, which further increases the emotional vulnerability.
__________________
"Living well is the best revenge." G.B. Shaw
"I'm easily swayed by robust scientific evidence." Amtram
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Amtram For This Useful Post:
MADD As A Hatte (08-07-14), Stevuke79 (01-28-14)
  #111  
Old 01-28-14, 01:22 PM
mildadhd mildadhd is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: North America
Posts: 11,985
Thanks: 1,852
Thanked 1,275 Times in 963 Posts
mildadhd has disabled reputation
Re: ADHD does not exist according to Neurologist Richard Saul

What about the basic emotions we are born with, which cognitive maturity is built upon?


Peripherals
__________________
"When people are suffering mentally, they want to feel better葉hey want to stop having bad emotions and start having good emotions." (-Temple Grandin)

Last edited by mildadhd; 01-28-14 at 01:34 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #112  
Old 01-28-14, 01:45 PM
Lunacie's Avatar
Lunacie Lunacie is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: south-central Kansas
Posts: 19,901
Thanks: 21,662
Thanked 26,912 Times in 12,558 Posts
Lunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: ADHD does not exist according to Neurologist Richard Saul

I think this issue of emotional difficulties has veered off from the posted topic.

Perhaps it could be addressed in a thread specifically on the topic of emotional dysregulation?
__________________
ADD is not a problem of knowing what to do; it is a problem of doing what you know.
-RUSSELL A. BARKLEY, PH.D.


As far as I know, there is nothing positive about ADHD that people can't have w out ADHD. ~ ADD me
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Lunacie For This Useful Post:
Amtram (01-28-14)
  #113  
Old 01-28-14, 02:13 PM
daveddd daveddd is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: May 2009
Location: cleveland
Posts: 9,187
Thanks: 10,954
Thanked 11,399 Times in 5,569 Posts
daveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond repute
Re: ADHD does not exist according to Neurologist Richard Saul

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amtram View Post
From the abstract: Emotional impulsiveness (EI) may be a central feature of attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) contributing impairment beyond the two ADHD dimensions of inattention and hyperactivity-impulsivity.

Meaning that these are caused by the ADHD, and can make it worse. But the emotional issues are "central features" of the disorder.
emotional issues can be the central feature, causing the impairments

like peripheral said
__________________
now is the time ...for me to rise to my feet...wipe your spit from my face...wipe these tears from my eyes!!...hatebreed
Reply With Quote
  #114  
Old 01-28-14, 02:15 PM
mildadhd mildadhd is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: North America
Posts: 11,985
Thanks: 1,852
Thanked 1,275 Times in 963 Posts
mildadhd has disabled reputation
Re: ADHD does not exist according to Neurologist Richard Saul

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunacie View Post
I think this issue of emotional difficulties has veered off from the posted topic.

Perhaps it could be addressed in a thread specifically on the topic of emotional dysregulation?
Or a thread about basic primary emotions that all humans are born with.

Basic emotions that higher cognitive consciousness maturity is built upon.

That not many people want to talk about. But really exist.

Example: The SEEKING System is a basic emotion system, we are born with (traditionally know as the brain reward system)

Dopamine and the basic emotions connection, early brain development, etc.




Peripherals
__________________
"When people are suffering mentally, they want to feel better葉hey want to stop having bad emotions and start having good emotions." (-Temple Grandin)
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to mildadhd For This Useful Post:
daveddd (01-28-14)
  #115  
Old 01-28-14, 02:18 PM
daveddd daveddd is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: May 2009
Location: cleveland
Posts: 9,187
Thanks: 10,954
Thanked 11,399 Times in 5,569 Posts
daveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond repute
Re: ADHD does not exist according to Neurologist Richard Saul

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amtram View Post
Barkley is saying that the condition causes the emotional issues, not that the emotional issues cause the condition. It's been studied quite a bit, and it's not only Barkley who's saying it. The emotional issues also exist before language development and even in children in friendly, supportive environments. (Which could well be considered appropriate treatment of the emotional issues, and a further example of how treating the emotional issues does not treat, much less cure, ADHD.)

he said the adhd is only around with inconsistent parenting

the opposite of what you said here

in other words , no facts are determinations have been reached by anyone

and like i stated, in the post you somehow attempted to argue with this post

emotional issues are their very own part of adhd , with their own impairments
__________________
now is the time ...for me to rise to my feet...wipe your spit from my face...wipe these tears from my eyes!!...hatebreed
Reply With Quote
  #116  
Old 01-28-14, 02:46 PM
mildadhd mildadhd is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: North America
Posts: 11,985
Thanks: 1,852
Thanked 1,275 Times in 963 Posts
mildadhd has disabled reputation
Re: ADHD does not exist according to Neurologist Richard Saul

Quote:
Originally Posted by daveddd View Post
emotional issues can be the central feature, causing the impairments

like peripheral said
Basic emotions we are born with are a "central feature" in all early development, in all people


Impairments may be partly caused by inherited emotionally hypersenstive temperament, and/or personal experience that basic emotions interact with to form higher control.

Specifics depend on the individual circumstances.

I appreciate the support, we have been working on these topics together for a while now, along with other members.

I appreciate the things I learn from your perspective, and your understanding.

I think you used the word pre executive, in a past thread?

I still have lots to learn, and am looking forward to discussing learning more about the topics more in the future.

There is a few other words I can't remember at the moment, that you introduced me to that I would like to discuse in more detail in the future.

Understanding basic emotions can help understand ADD and many other mental health issues better, along with what is already know.

(Laymans)

Peripherals
__________________
"When people are suffering mentally, they want to feel better葉hey want to stop having bad emotions and start having good emotions." (-Temple Grandin)
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to mildadhd For This Useful Post:
daveddd (01-28-14)
  #117  
Old 01-28-14, 02:50 PM
daveddd daveddd is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: May 2009
Location: cleveland
Posts: 9,187
Thanks: 10,954
Thanked 11,399 Times in 5,569 Posts
daveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond repute
Re: ADHD does not exist according to Neurologist Richard Saul

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peripheral View Post
Basic emotions we are born with are a "central feature" in all early development, in all people


Impairments may be partly caused by inherited emotionally hypersenstive temperament, and/or personal experience that basic emotions interact with to form higher control.

Specifics depend on the individual circumstances.

I appreciate the support, we have been working on these topics together for a while now, along with a few other members.

I appreciate the things I learn from your perspective, and your understanding.

I think you used the word pre executive, in a past thread?

I still have lots to learn, and am looking forward to discussing learning more about the topics more in the future.

There is a few other words that you introduced me to that I would like to discuse in more detail in the future.


Peripherals
barkley has the most concise group of pre executive functions

attention, feeling (physical) and other senses

ill double check that, but i think so
__________________
now is the time ...for me to rise to my feet...wipe your spit from my face...wipe these tears from my eyes!!...hatebreed
Reply With Quote
  #118  
Old 01-28-14, 02:54 PM
daveddd daveddd is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: May 2009
Location: cleveland
Posts: 9,187
Thanks: 10,954
Thanked 11,399 Times in 5,569 Posts
daveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond repute
Re: ADHD does not exist according to Neurologist Richard Saul

and alertness and memory
__________________
now is the time ...for me to rise to my feet...wipe your spit from my face...wipe these tears from my eyes!!...hatebreed
Reply With Quote
  #119  
Old 01-28-14, 03:12 PM
mildadhd mildadhd is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: North America
Posts: 11,985
Thanks: 1,852
Thanked 1,275 Times in 963 Posts
mildadhd has disabled reputation
Re: ADHD does not exist according to Neurologist Richard Saul

Thanks daveddd,

If I understand correctly the basis of topics you just posted are primal, orginate in the lower brain. past on genetically?

attention, feeling (physical) and other senses, alertness

are maybe ascestoral memory, not sure about memory?

I am getting ahead of myself, I better read some things.

Renumeration? is another word I would like to learn more about, I could be wrong but renumeration, not even sure if I have the right word, but I think memory and renuneration? (Dwelling) are not primal but in part due to expereince.

I could be making mistakes but threw out the words for later new discussion.

I think you are on the right track with the pre-executive words.

Seems to make sense in regards to the affective material I am reading.

I mean I remember them being part.

Need to reread some stuff, for accuracy.



Peripherals
__________________
"When people are suffering mentally, they want to feel better葉hey want to stop having bad emotions and start having good emotions." (-Temple Grandin)
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to mildadhd For This Useful Post:
daveddd (01-28-14)
  #120  
Old 01-28-14, 03:13 PM
daveddd daveddd is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: May 2009
Location: cleveland
Posts: 9,187
Thanks: 10,954
Thanked 11,399 Times in 5,569 Posts
daveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond repute
Re: ADHD does not exist according to Neurologist Richard Saul

yes i think those are the primal things

rumination?
__________________
now is the time ...for me to rise to my feet...wipe your spit from my face...wipe these tears from my eyes!!...hatebreed
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
"No scientific basis" - Here's the Proof mctavish23 General ADD Talk 175 04-28-17 05:27 PM
ADHD: Underdiagnosed and Undermedicated? APSJ Science in the Media 17 01-13-17 06:20 AM
I've managed to get scientific/physical evidence that I have ADHD! I'm pretty happy! Modafinilguy Adult Diagnosis & Treatment 10 12-21-13 06:15 PM
international consensus statement on adhd gabriela General ADD Talk 2 12-11-12 06:35 AM
My NEW ADHD Research Summary: Out of Pure Frustration With Lack of Current Knowledge! MedStudent82 Adderall 6 02-10-12 03:15 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) 2003 - 2015 ADD Forums