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  #31  
Old 01-07-14, 01:13 PM
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Re: ADHD does not exist according to Neurologist Richard Saul

Fraser, very succinctly:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraser
The problem i'm trying to point out here is that too many of these so called "tests" aren't really tests at all.
ADHD is tested every bit as scientifically as Autism, ALS, Dementia, Schizophrenia, Manic; they ask you about symptoms and take you at your word. For most, there is no bacteria or protein to isolate.
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  #32  
Old 01-07-14, 01:23 PM
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Re: ADHD does not exist according to Neurologist Richard Saul

i don't think there are any professionals that think that adhd IS a disease

even barkley says it isn't
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  #33  
Old 01-07-14, 01:29 PM
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Re: ADHD does not exist according to Neurologist Richard Saul

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevuke79 View Post
Fraser, very succinctly:


ADHD is tested every bit as scientifically as Autism, ALS, Dementia, Schizophrenia, Manic; they ask you about symptoms and take you at your word. For most, there is no bacteria or protein to isolate.
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Originally Posted by daveddd View Post
i don't think there are any professionals that think that adhd IS a disease

even barkley says it isn't
True. ADHD is not a disease just as a broken bone is not a disease.

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  #34  
Old 01-07-14, 01:33 PM
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Re: ADHD does not exist according to Neurologist Richard Saul

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Originally Posted by Dizfriz View Post
True. ADHD is not a disease just as a broken bone is not a disease.

Dizfriz
as in no one specific way to arrive there?
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  #35  
Old 01-07-14, 01:42 PM
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Re: ADHD does not exist according to Neurologist Richard Saul

I'm not sure that "disease" vs "disorder" is a distinction that means anything. Let's think of them all as "Treatable Disorders"

But come to think of it, ... we really can't test scientifically for Alzheimer's,.. call me a cynic but I think those old guys are all just trying to get extra time on the SAT's. Fakers!
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  #36  
Old 01-07-14, 01:55 PM
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Re: ADHD does not exist according to Neurologist Richard Saul

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Originally Posted by Stevuke79 View Post
I'm not sure that "disease" vs "disorder" is a distinction that means anything. Let's think of them all as "Treatable Disorders"

But come to think of it, ... we really can't test scientifically for Alzheimer's,.. call me a cynic but I think those old guys are all just trying to get extra time on the SAT's. Fakers!
i think it would mean that a disease is one specific illness

symptom grouping disorders can be caused by several different things

i think there is some reason for a distinction there
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  #37  
Old 01-07-14, 01:58 PM
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Re: ADHD does not exist according to Neurologist Richard Saul

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Originally Posted by daveddd View Post
as in no one specific way to arrive there?
There is an agreement or custom that the word "disease" refers to a specific sub-set of "things that can go wrong".

- Being sick because of infection by microorganisms is always called disease, plus anything that can be seen as roughly analogous to infection (e.g. cancer) is also always called disease.

- It's very rare for externally-caused physical injury to be called disease.

- Things that fit neither of those categories are usually not called disease either, but it's probably less clear-cut.
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  #38  
Old 01-07-14, 02:02 PM
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Re: ADHD does not exist according to Neurologist Richard Saul

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i think it would mean that a disease is one specific illness

symptom grouping disorders can be caused by several different things

i think there is some reason for a distinction there
Ok. I have no idea; it sounds like none of us do either. Is the distinction about disease relevant to your point.

Could we talk about "Treatable Conditions" and have just as productive a conversation about Alzheimers, ADHD and Broken legs? Or am I missing your point?
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  #39  
Old 01-07-14, 03:47 PM
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Re: ADHD does not exist according to Neurologist Richard Saul

i thought that was the thread idea, i don't know

adhd is just a set of human traits to an extreme

not a disease or illness
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  #40  
Old 01-07-14, 04:03 PM
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Re: ADHD does not exist according to Neurologist Richard Saul

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as in no one specific way to arrive there?
no, as in, "it may not technically be a disease, but it is a pathological and undesirable state"
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  #41  
Old 01-07-14, 04:04 PM
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Re: ADHD does not exist according to Neurologist Richard Saul

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no, as in, "it may not technically be a disease, but it is a pathological and undesirable state"
i agree

a state, not arrived at in any specific way
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  #42  
Old 01-07-14, 04:09 PM
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Re: ADHD does not exist according to Neurologist Richard Saul

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i thought that was the thread idea, i don't know

adhd is just a set of human traits to an extreme

not a disease or illness
That seems like a harmless enough semantical point to me. We can say that about many conditions and I have no problem with it. Lets do away with the terms disease or illness as it relates to ADHD. Tho particular words weren't doing anything for me anyway.

Now what? Was your problem purely semantical? Can we still diagnose and treat? Or am I still missing your point?
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  #43  
Old 01-07-14, 04:22 PM
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Re: ADHD does not exist according to Neurologist Richard Saul

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adhd is just a set of human traits to an extreme
How so? It isn't so much traits taken to the extreme, as an actual issue with how the brain neurologically functions. It's not an extreme of human trait, because a trait would imply that it is a sort of natural thing or something that could be controlled via willpower or making a change in your personality through practice. It's a simple chemical imbalance in the brain that is in need of correcting where ( if I understand what I've read about it) the brain simply doesn't properly transmit thought from neuron to neuron. Calling it a trait simplifies and degrades it.
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  #44  
Old 01-07-14, 05:23 PM
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Re: ADHD does not exist according to Neurologist Richard Saul

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Originally Posted by Stevuke79 View Post
That seems like a harmless enough semantical point to me. We can say that about many conditions and I have no problem with it. Lets do away with the terms disease or illness as it relates to ADHD. Tho particular words weren't doing anything for me anyway.

Now what? Was your problem purely semantical? Can we still diagnose and treat? Or am I still missing your point?
no i was just confused on the argument of the thread

it said guy says adhd not real

then it was quoted , the guy didn't say it wasn't real he said it wasn't a specific disease

barkley has gone out his way to say , adhd is not a disease, not something you have or don't, its the extreme end of human traits"

so i was just confused on what the argument in the thread was, all professionals know adhd isn't a disease,

i was just confused, i have adhd, its a sickness
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  #45  
Old 01-07-14, 05:35 PM
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Re: ADHD does not exist according to Neurologist Richard Saul

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I love how he includes the comment that medications are used to try to improve performance at school

They aren't used to try to improve, they are used to try to repair. Improving implies that a baseline of acceptability is there already when it usually is not if medication is proscribed. Just speaking from personal experience, I had almost all Bs and Cs before my doctor proscribed me my medication, and they they all jumped to As and Bs.

Medications prescribed to help us compensate, also enhance performance in the rest of the population. Therein lies the problem. While there are people who are suffering and show a genuine need for diagnosis and medication, far too many have sought diagnosis to enhance their performance through medication.

My problem is with the doctors who aren't requiring thorough evaluations before prescribing medication to patients. Baseline of acceptability is often determined by neuro-pyschological testing, such as the WAIS-IV. Many post-secondary schools require this as part of documentation for many disabilities, including ADHD.

Anyone can fake or manipulate an inventory for their benefit. WAIS-IV, physical, blood work, etc. can't be faked or manipulated. How possible ADHD is negatively impacting someone's life can't be falsified.

The entire controversy surrounding ADHD is related to the medications that we are prescribed. By discrediting ADHD, it makes us appear as having an unfair advantage. If ADHD medications became over the counter drugs tomorrow, the controversy might disappear.

Should this happen, a story similar to the original BioShock would develop. In that game, a closed society literally destroys itself by taking "enhancement drugs." The original "enhancement drug" in BioShock was discovered because it healed a hand.
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