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ADD News News from around the world about ADD/ADHD, other disorders, and some rather bizzarre & strange stories.

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  #16  
Old 07-21-09, 07:57 AM
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Re: What If Einstein Had Taken Ritalin?

Silly rabbits, ADHD is the "thinkers" disorder. Our outbursts are really frustration being released from being constantly surrounded by morons.

It seems like everywhere you go there is some idiot blocking progressive thought.

The movie "Office Space" illustrates this frustration.
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  #17  
Old 07-21-09, 08:45 AM
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Re: What If Einstein Had Taken Ritalin?

All the great thinkers like Einstein and Tesla were initially "poo-pooed" by the masses. This is the tremendous burden that often stifles creativity, not stims.

We have to fight an uphill battle with the "that's crazy, it will never work" crowd.

Example: I was recently involved in the Netflix prize contest. I didn't stay in the contest because the terms didn't allow for a solution that didn't utilize the existing dataset which is flawed. The number of attributes is too narrow, and at best can only produce like-kind recommendations.

Like when you buy a camera at Amazon, then they offer you more cameras when you go back. To me, the most unlikely buyer of a camera is someone who just bought one, dontcha think?

It reminds me of when Edison hired Tesla to improve his DC generator and Tesla realized that there was a simple, but fatal flaw. DC distribution is not scalable in terms of cost efficiency and therefore has no real growth potential.

But Edison CONTINUED to push his system knowing full well that Tesla was right.

This is what we're up against. The denial of truth in the face of unequivocal evidence.
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  #18  
Old 07-21-09, 09:41 AM
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Re: What If Einstein Had Taken Ritalin?

The great AC - DC dispute was as much driven by patents -- and money -- as it was vision. Edison was the public face of one group of investors, George Westinghouse and Tesla the other. See War of Currents (Wikipedia entry)

Oh the folklore about Einstein being a poor student? It's just that. Face it, Einstein was not ADHD.

Enough of this tedious idea that ADDers are somehow a tribe of misunderstood creative mutants.

X-men we're not...


Quote:
Originally Posted by budwzr View Post
All the great thinkers like Einstein and Tesla were initially "poo-pooed" by the masses. This is the tremendous burden that often stifles creativity, not stims.

We have to fight an uphill battle with the "that's crazy, it will never work" crowd.

Example: I was recently involved in the Netflix prize contest. I didn't stay in the contest because the terms didn't allow for a solution that didn't utilize the existing dataset which is flawed. The number of attributes is too narrow, and at best can only produce like-kind recommendations.

Like when you buy a camera at Amazon, then they offer you more cameras when you go back. To me, the most unlikely buyer of a camera is someone who just bought one, dontcha think?

It reminds me of when Edison hired Tesla to improve his DC generator and Tesla realized that there was a simple, but fatal flaw. DC distribution is not scalable in terms of cost efficiency and therefore has no real growth potential.

But Edison CONTINUED to push his system knowing full well that Tesla was right.

This is what we're up against. The denial of truth in the face of unequivocal evidence.
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  #19  
Old 07-21-09, 10:22 AM
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Re: What If Einstein Had Taken Ritalin?

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Originally Posted by Retromancer View Post
Oh the folklore about Einstein being a poor student? It's just that. Face it, Einstein was not ADHD.

Enough of this tedious idea that ADDers are somehow a tribe of misunderstood creative mutants.

X-men we're not...
Yeah I know. How do we even know if Einstein had ADHD? Personally I do NOT think he had it. AND contrary to popular belief, Einstein was actually a pretty GOOD student! He did have problems with delayed speaking as a child so if he did have a mental disorder, it sounds like high functioning autism would have been a more accurate diagnosis. The belief that Einstein was a terrible student is a MYTH.
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Old 07-21-09, 10:24 AM
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Re: What If Einstein Had Taken Ritalin?

And Thomas Edison was partially deaf due to a bout with scarlet fever as a toddler. So it sounds more like his academic problems were more due to his hearing issues instead of the alleged ADHD.

I think it would be healthier to focus on our own strengths and talents instead of claiming that every famous person had ADHD.
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  #21  
Old 07-21-09, 10:36 AM
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Re: What If Einstein Had Taken Ritalin?

Yeah somehow the idea that Einstein had a disability that sabotaged his working memory is rather a long shot. You don't build the kind of cognitive theoretical models he built without being able to juggle a fair bit in your head.

Quote:
Silly rabbits, ADHD is the "thinkers" disorder. Our outbursts are really frustration being released from being constantly surrounded by morons.
Oh good, I'll go tell that to the overrepresented ADHD prison population. No, the outbursts are frustration at people you believe are morons. There is a rather profound difference to be had there.

How likely is it that, as you believe, you are always right? I know there is a strong feeling telling you that you are, but that is only a measure of how strongly you believe that you are right, it is not any measure of how right you are.

Sometimes people don't make optimal choices. Get over it. Stop your paranoid delusions of persecution.
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  #22  
Old 07-21-09, 12:15 PM
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Re: What If Einstein Had Taken Ritalin?

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Originally Posted by Archon View Post
Yeah somehow the idea that Einstein had a disability that sabotaged his working memory is rather a long shot. You don't build the kind of cognitive theoretical models he built without being able to juggle a fair bit in your head.


Oh good, I'll go tell that to the overrepresented ADHD prison population. No, the outbursts are frustration at people you believe are morons. There is a rather profound difference to be had there.

How likely is it that, as you believe, you are always right? I know there is a strong feeling telling you that you are, but that is only a measure of how strongly you believe that you are right, it is not any measure of how right you are.

Sometimes people don't make optimal choices. Get over it. Stop your paranoid delusions of persecution.
You are just proving the point.....(this was too complecated for me)
But there is something,right,here.

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Silly rabbits, ADHD is the "thinkers" disorder. Our outbursts are really frustration being released from being constantly surrounded by morons.
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  #23  
Old 09-01-09, 09:43 AM
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Lightbulb Re: What If Einstein Had Taken Ritalin?

I understand that those of us with ADD and ADHD who are taking this medication in our 40's, as young adults or even as teenagers with much stronger brain chemistry than say a 6 yr old are able to adapt very easily to medicine's like Ritalin and Adderall. My question is how does it affect CHILDREN. There are so many conflicting reports and I think before we assume since it's "good for the goose it must be good for the gander" we need to understand the difference in adult brain chemistry and childrens brain chemistry. I'm sure there have been plenty of studies done to ensure safety and comply with Federal regulations but have there been studies to determine how these medicines affect creativity in kids?

I mean kids are by nature more creative than adults due in part to their not yet shaped brain chemistry as well as their youthfull inexperience. As mad as I get at the lack of common sense from my kids some time I love their creativity and I don't want to see that harmed now or in the future by doping them full of mind altering drugs of any kind. I've tried medicine with my son and it seems to make him almost a zombie with no appetite and does what I feel is more harm than good in many respects. While he is able to focus better at school I'm afraid that it changes the way he interacts, the way he creates and the way he thinks sometimes in the negative and sometime in the positive. This story and by most accounts the concerns out there about stifiling creativty are mostly in children and I would be interested in finding out more about how that creativity is affected.
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  #24  
Old 09-01-09, 03:33 PM
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Re: What If Einstein Had Taken Ritalin?

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I'm sure there have been plenty of studies done to ensure safety and comply with Federal regulations but have there been studies to determine how these medicines affect creativity in kids?
We already have a way to crush the creativity out of kids, it's called school.

One thing I don't understand about the "we shouldn't give Dexies to kids because it kills their creativity" argument is that the corollary is somehow not true. If dexies were shown to -increase- creativity, (and the case can certainly be made that amphetamines do just that) this could somehow not be used as a valid argument for the medication. I find that somewhat paradoxical.

Could you elaborate on how you feel your son is a zombie on Ritalin? It certainly runs contrary to my experience.
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  #25  
Old 09-02-09, 08:29 PM
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Re: What If Einstein Had Taken Ritalin?

What if aliens were on your roof and you missed it?

He obviously did great things without Ritalin.

The mindfulness perspective would be to recognize that he contributed much to

humankind;period.

tc

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  #26  
Old 09-02-09, 09:09 PM
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Re: What If Einstein Had Taken Ritalin?

god i gotta print this... that is a great article, maybe i'll show my parents who think im just lazy when off of meds. hehehe
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  #27  
Old 09-02-09, 10:22 PM
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Re: What If Einstein Had Taken Ritalin?

I know a lot of really stupid kids with ADHD. I know a couple really smart ones. Not everyone who has ADHD is some kind of creative genius, and in fact I'd go so far as to say the vast majority of people with ADHD are not.

ADHD isn't some kind of "disorder of genius." Most kids with ADHD are within the normal intelligence range. The ones with severe ADHD are probably more likely to be borderline, but that's purely conjecture based on charts at work.

Let's face it: Einstein didn't have ADHD. There's no documentation of him demonstrating any of the hallmark characteristics of the disorder. Where are the reports of multiple detentions d/t interrupting classes? Where is the history of poor academic performance? Surely the fact that he had the attention span to develop a comprehensive theory of physics, supported by equations that took literally months to develop and take hours to illustrate on a blackboard, would rule out ADHD?

There are people who openly have ADHD who have been successful, so ADHD is not necessarily a death sentence for life success - but the bottom line is that the vast majority of people with ADHD don't have any kind of functional benefit from it. It's impairing. Hence "disorder."

That's why this forum is filled with accounts of "my life is very difficult and I can't function normally" instead of "I just won an honorary doctorate for my work in particle physics."

That's why the very support groups that try to claim ADHD is some kind of disguised blessing exist.

Ritalin helps people who would otherwise not be successful be successful. See: all the reports on these very forums of "my life sucked and I couldn't get my **** together until I started taking medication." Bottom line? Society doesn't reward an uneducated and dysfunctional artist, and "creativity" means squat unless it's grounded in a working knowledge of how the world works.

Einstein was creative, yes. He was also a physicist. He was creative within the realm of physics. He knew physics. Someone who can't sit still in class? Can't learn physics.

The whole concept of trying to glorify disorders bothers me. It's the same kind of thing as "van Gogh had bipolar disorder, he created beautiful works while hypomanic!" True. He also killed himself. Not very successful if you ask me.
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  #28  
Old 09-02-09, 11:09 PM
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Re: What If Einstein Had Taken Ritalin?

Hit the ball out of the freakin' park! Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KMiller View Post
I know a lot of really stupid kids with ADHD. I know a couple really smart ones. Not everyone who has ADHD is some kind of creative genius, and in fact I'd go so far as to say the vast majority of people with ADHD are not.

ADHD isn't some kind of "disorder of genius." Most kids with ADHD are within the normal intelligence range. The ones with severe ADHD are probably more likely to be borderline, but that's purely conjecture based on charts at work.

Let's face it: Einstein didn't have ADHD. There's no documentation of him demonstrating any of the hallmark characteristics of the disorder. Where are the reports of multiple detentions d/t interrupting classes? Where is the history of poor academic performance? Surely the fact that he had the attention span to develop a comprehensive theory of physics, supported by equations that took literally months to develop and take hours to illustrate on a blackboard, would rule out ADHD?

There are people who openly have ADHD who have been successful, so ADHD is not necessarily a death sentence for life success - but the bottom line is that the vast majority of people with ADHD don't have any kind of functional benefit from it. It's impairing. Hence "disorder."

That's why this forum is filled with accounts of "my life is very difficult and I can't function normally" instead of "I just won an honorary doctorate for my work in particle physics."

That's why the very support groups that try to claim ADHD is some kind of disguised blessing exist.

Ritalin helps people who would otherwise not be successful be successful. See: all the reports on these very forums of "my life sucked and I couldn't get my **** together until I started taking medication." Bottom line? Society doesn't reward an uneducated and dysfunctional artist, and "creativity" means squat unless it's grounded in a working knowledge of how the world works.

Einstein was creative, yes. He was also a physicist. He was creative within the realm of physics. He knew physics. Someone who can't sit still in class? Can't learn physics.

The whole concept of trying to glorify disorders bothers me. It's the same kind of thing as "van Gogh had bipolar disorder, he created beautiful works while hypomanic!" True. He also killed himself. Not very successful if you ask me.
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  #29  
Old 09-04-09, 11:46 PM
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Re: What If Einstein Had Taken Ritalin?

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Originally Posted by psychokitty View Post
I did have an interesting experience, not long after I started taking ritalin.

I am an ESL teacher, and some of my most interesting and fun lessons have stemmed from me following the subjects and tangents that came up in the free conversation time in the first fifteen minutes of the class. I could take anything, and run with it....and make up a lesson on the spot.

After I started taking ritalin I was doing a class.....and was suprised when no flashes of brilliance came.....I had to look back at my lesson plan (which unusually I had completed) and actually follow the lesson plan
I`d lost my ability to creatively go off on a tangent
Perhaps what was interesting and fun to you making it up on the spot was not really as great for your students as you thought. Perhaps following a lesson plan you planned in advance is actually better for your students. Perhaps your creativity was actually expressed better in the lesson plan you prepared ahead of time rather than in the tangent you ran off with on the spur of the moment.
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  #30  
Old 09-06-09, 01:40 AM
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Re: What If Einstein Had Taken Ritalin?

KMiller - I am going to have to respectfully disagree with you. Just because you don't believe that someone who has ADHD could be a physics genius, does not mean that it isn't so.

"Einstein was creative, yes. He was also a physicist. He was creative within the realm of physics. He knew physics. Someone who can't sit still in class? Can't learn physics."

You sound like the psychiatrist that I went to see before he officially diagnosed me with severe ADHD.

A little background on myself. I learn foreign languages very easily, so easily that in high school I was sent to a local college because the teachers didn't want to waste my time doing the AP classes. I was told that I was a genius in learning foreign languages.

My psychiatrist was about to diagnose with me major depressive disorder (which is a misdiagnosis for me) on the basis that someone with ADHD could never be good at foreign language because it takes high concentration.

I left that appointment in tears because I knew that I had ADHD and that my issues with concentration had affected my life in a very extreme way.

i went home and made a two page list of every single symptom since the age of 4.

went back and after a couple more appointments i was diagnosed with ADHD.

i just definitely would not make such a rash statement, that Einstein did not have ADHD, on the basis that a person who can't sit still in class can't learn physics.

---------------------

sorry i wrote so much! i do wholeheartedly agree with you about people glorifying disorders because of the art/genius they created. it does make me kind of sick to think about it because regardless of their wonderful/beautiful creation, the amount of pain that they must have suffered, must have been very difficult to live with. And for that one person who creates art/something that changes the world, there must be a million people who have been incapacitated by it.
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