ADD Forums - Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder Support and Information Resources Community  

Go Back   ADD Forums - Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder Support and Information Resources Community > CO-EXISTING CONDITIONS > Sleeping
Register Blogs FAQ Chat Members List Calendar Donate Gallery Arcade Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-18-19, 10:37 AM
PI-ADHD 29 PI-ADHD 29 is online now
ADDvanced Member
 

Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: TURKEY
Posts: 184
Thanks: 45
Thanked 75 Times in 63 Posts
PI-ADHD 29 is on a distinguished road
to wake up more tired than before go to bed(unrefreshing sleep).

I feel too tired almost every time. When i wake up i feel as i didn't sleep. Even if i sleep 7-8 hours i feel more tired than night. I've never felt vigorous, fresh awakening in all my life. The only exception of this was when i was using ritalin. When i was using ritalin i could awake very energetic even with only 2-3 hours of sleep.
Do you have any advice? What can i do without medicine?
__________________
Born in 1989. Treated for major depression and anxiety since 21 yo.
Tried almost all of SSRI's (none of them worked)
Predominantly inattentive adhd, diagnosed in 2018.
Started with ritalin (worked only for two weeks)
Also tried wellbutrin and strattera
Now: ritalin and medikinet
For about three years local corticosteroid pomades for atopic dermatitis.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to PI-ADHD 29 For This Useful Post:
20thcenturyfox (05-08-19)
  #2  
Old 04-18-19, 11:10 AM
sarahsweets's Avatar
sarahsweets sarahsweets is offline
Mod-A-holic
 

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: nj, usa
Posts: 28,605
Thanks: 5,798
Thanked 33,083 Times in 15,343 Posts
sarahsweets has a reputation beyond reputesarahsweets has a reputation beyond reputesarahsweets has a reputation beyond reputesarahsweets has a reputation beyond reputesarahsweets has a reputation beyond reputesarahsweets has a reputation beyond reputesarahsweets has a reputation beyond reputesarahsweets has a reputation beyond reputesarahsweets has a reputation beyond reputesarahsweets has a reputation beyond reputesarahsweets has a reputation beyond repute
Re: to wake up more tired than before go to bed(unrefreshing sleep).

You should consider a sleep study.
__________________
President of the No F's given society.

I carried a watermelon?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to sarahsweets For This Useful Post:
excel (04-19-19)
  #3  
Old 04-19-19, 09:08 AM
PI-ADHD 29 PI-ADHD 29 is online now
ADDvanced Member
 

Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: TURKEY
Posts: 184
Thanks: 45
Thanked 75 Times in 63 Posts
PI-ADHD 29 is on a distinguished road
Re: to wake up more tired than before go to bed(unrefreshing sleep).

I think unrefreshing sleep is common in adhd, especially in inattentive adhd. Isn't there anyone like me?
__________________
Born in 1989. Treated for major depression and anxiety since 21 yo.
Tried almost all of SSRI's (none of them worked)
Predominantly inattentive adhd, diagnosed in 2018.
Started with ritalin (worked only for two weeks)
Also tried wellbutrin and strattera
Now: ritalin and medikinet
For about three years local corticosteroid pomades for atopic dermatitis.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to PI-ADHD 29 For This Useful Post:
20thcenturyfox (05-07-19)
Sponsored Links
  #4  
Old 04-19-19, 09:11 AM
Daniel1970's Avatar
Daniel1970 Daniel1970 is offline
ADDvanced Member
 

Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: The Sprawl, USA
Posts: 244
Thanks: 223
Thanked 210 Times in 120 Posts
Daniel1970 is a splendid one to beholdDaniel1970 is a splendid one to beholdDaniel1970 is a splendid one to beholdDaniel1970 is a splendid one to beholdDaniel1970 is a splendid one to beholdDaniel1970 is a splendid one to beholdDaniel1970 is a splendid one to behold
Re: to wake up more tired than before go to bed(unrefreshing sleep).

Do a sleep study. You probably have sleep apnea.
__________________
Consider others. - Sakyong Mipham Rinpoche

Be yourself, and the rest will follow.

Breathing is not optional. - Dr. Raymond Wertheim

What do you care what other people think? - Arline Feynman, to her husband, American physicist Richard P. Feynman

D.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Daniel1970 For This Useful Post:
excel (04-19-19), Rebelyell (04-19-19)
  #5  
Old 04-19-19, 10:00 AM
PI-ADHD 29 PI-ADHD 29 is online now
ADDvanced Member
 

Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: TURKEY
Posts: 184
Thanks: 45
Thanked 75 Times in 63 Posts
PI-ADHD 29 is on a distinguished road
Re: to wake up more tired than before go to bed(unrefreshing sleep).

I don't much about sleep study. Is there any treatment or solution if i have sleep apnea?
Can i know if i have sleep apnea or not myself?
Is sleep apnea common in adhd? Is sleep apnea is the result or reason of adhd?
Thank you.
__________________
Born in 1989. Treated for major depression and anxiety since 21 yo.
Tried almost all of SSRI's (none of them worked)
Predominantly inattentive adhd, diagnosed in 2018.
Started with ritalin (worked only for two weeks)
Also tried wellbutrin and strattera
Now: ritalin and medikinet
For about three years local corticosteroid pomades for atopic dermatitis.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to PI-ADHD 29 For This Useful Post:
20thcenturyfox (05-08-19)
  #6  
Old 04-19-19, 11:19 AM
Lunacie's Avatar
Lunacie Lunacie is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: south-central Kansas
Posts: 19,872
Thanks: 21,611
Thanked 26,864 Times in 12,537 Posts
Lunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: to wake up more tired than before go to bed(unrefreshing sleep).

Quote:
Originally Posted by PI-ADHD 29 View Post
I don't much about sleep study. Is there any treatment or solution if i have sleep apnea?
Can i know if i have sleep apnea or not myself?
Is sleep apnea common in adhd? Is sleep apnea is the result or reason of adhd?
Thank you.
Treatment would depend on whether you have mild, moderate or serious sleep
apnea. I don't know if running a tape recorder while sleeping would really tell
you when you stop breathing (and then gasp for air) or not. More reliable would
be a sleep study. This can be done at home wearing a sleep monitor.

Treatment for anything more than mild sleep apnea would be a c-pap or bi-pap
machine. (continuous positive air pressure or bi-level continuous air pressure).

Quote:
Mild Sleep Apnea treatment might include:

*Nasal Decongestants: This method could help Sleep Apnea that is being caused by allergic rhinitis.
*Oral Appliances: These tools work well as a first line treatment for mild cases of Sleep Apnea. You would wear this kind of appliance, which is similar to a sports or orthodontic mouth appliance, in your mouth while you sleep. The device would temporarily move your jaw slightly to minimize airway collapse.
*Surgery: This solution could improve airflow through the nose to help breathing.
*Positional Therapy: This technique helps you if your Sleep Apnea is dependent on sleeping on your back in a supine position. This therapy helps you stay on your sides while sleeping, and can include using tools that prevent rolling onto your back.
*Weight Loss: This lifestyle change may help if you’re included in the majority of people with OSA who are overweight or obese.
*Continuous Positive Airway Pressure (CPAP): While you might try other treatment methods first, CPAP machines are also used for mild Sleep Apnea. With CPAP, AHI improvements may be made.
__________________
ADD is not a problem of knowing what to do; it is a problem of doing what you know.
-RUSSELL A. BARKLEY, PH.D.


As far as I know, there is nothing positive about ADHD that people can't have w out ADHD. ~ ADD me
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-19-19, 02:31 PM
PI-ADHD 29 PI-ADHD 29 is online now
ADDvanced Member
 

Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: TURKEY
Posts: 184
Thanks: 45
Thanked 75 Times in 63 Posts
PI-ADHD 29 is on a distinguished road
Re: to wake up more tired than before go to bed(unrefreshing sleep).

First of all in my previous post i meant; I don't (know) much about sleep study. My inattentiveness
When i was 16 years old i had an operation of tonsils and nose concha. Also my nose bone is curved. So i may have sleep apnea.
But as i said in my previous post, ritalin helped me a lot. Normally i need at least 7-8 hours of sleep but with ritalin only 2-3 hours was enough. I could wake up refreshed for the first time of life, it was unbelievable. Isn't that a contradiction?
Can ritalin help for sleep apnea?
__________________
Born in 1989. Treated for major depression and anxiety since 21 yo.
Tried almost all of SSRI's (none of them worked)
Predominantly inattentive adhd, diagnosed in 2018.
Started with ritalin (worked only for two weeks)
Also tried wellbutrin and strattera
Now: ritalin and medikinet
For about three years local corticosteroid pomades for atopic dermatitis.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to PI-ADHD 29 For This Useful Post:
20thcenturyfox (05-08-19)
  #8  
Old 04-19-19, 08:48 PM
Greyhound1's Avatar
Greyhound1 Greyhound1 is offline
Mind Racing Moderator
 

Join Date: May 2013
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 9,668
Thanks: 12,920
Thanked 16,315 Times in 7,808 Posts
Greyhound1 has a reputation beyond reputeGreyhound1 has a reputation beyond reputeGreyhound1 has a reputation beyond reputeGreyhound1 has a reputation beyond reputeGreyhound1 has a reputation beyond reputeGreyhound1 has a reputation beyond reputeGreyhound1 has a reputation beyond reputeGreyhound1 has a reputation beyond reputeGreyhound1 has a reputation beyond reputeGreyhound1 has a reputation beyond reputeGreyhound1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: to wake up more tired than before go to bed(unrefreshing sleep).

Quote:
Originally Posted by PI-ADHD 29 View Post
I think unrefreshing sleep is common in adhd, especially in inattentive adhd. Isn't there anyone like me?
I’m not sure it’s common with ADHD but more common than for those without ADHD. I’m like you, I wake up much more tired and out of it than when I went to bed. I suspect we as the others have mentioned have a sleeping disorder of some type. I’ve ruled out sleep apnea and believe mine could be Delayed Sleep phase disorder. I feel like, I wake up for some reason during my deep REM sleep. I feel my best physically and mentally at night as well.

It would take me half to all day just to finally feel awake. About a year ago, I started getting up 1 hour before I want or need to be up and take my adderall. I quickly go soundly back to sleep and wake up an hour later feeling amazingly more rested and much more awake and alert. It’s been a game changer for me. I can be a morning person even though I don’t want to be one.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Greyhound1 For This Useful Post:
20thcenturyfox (05-08-19), Little Missy (04-19-19)
  #9  
Old 04-19-19, 10:39 PM
excel excel is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: dover,de
Posts: 2,692
Thanks: 334
Thanked 1,124 Times in 674 Posts
excel is a splendid one to beholdexcel is a splendid one to beholdexcel is a splendid one to beholdexcel is a splendid one to beholdexcel is a splendid one to beholdexcel is a splendid one to beholdexcel is a splendid one to beholdexcel is a splendid one to behold
Re: to wake up more tired than before go to bed(unrefreshing sleep).

Sleep apnea isn't connected to add. Losing weight and getting your allergies under control can help to eliminate sleep apnea
__________________
Redskins Fan
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-20-19, 03:58 AM
PI-ADHD 29 PI-ADHD 29 is online now
ADDvanced Member
 

Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: TURKEY
Posts: 184
Thanks: 45
Thanked 75 Times in 63 Posts
PI-ADHD 29 is on a distinguished road
Re: to wake up more tired than before go to bed(unrefreshing sleep).

Quote:
Originally Posted by excel View Post
Sleep apnea isn't connected to add. Losing weight and getting your allergies under control can help to eliminate sleep apnea
Yes I have allergies but i'm 64 kg(141 lbs), 178 cm (5 feet and 10 inch).
__________________
Born in 1989. Treated for major depression and anxiety since 21 yo.
Tried almost all of SSRI's (none of them worked)
Predominantly inattentive adhd, diagnosed in 2018.
Started with ritalin (worked only for two weeks)
Also tried wellbutrin and strattera
Now: ritalin and medikinet
For about three years local corticosteroid pomades for atopic dermatitis.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to PI-ADHD 29 For This Useful Post:
20thcenturyfox (05-08-19)
  #11  
Old 05-08-19, 12:28 PM
20thcenturyfox's Avatar
20thcenturyfox 20thcenturyfox is offline
Contributor
 

Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Canada
Posts: 380
Thanks: 1,292
Thanked 453 Times in 250 Posts
20thcenturyfox is a glorious beacon of light20thcenturyfox is a glorious beacon of light20thcenturyfox is a glorious beacon of light20thcenturyfox is a glorious beacon of light20thcenturyfox is a glorious beacon of light
Non-apnea Sleep Disorders Are Far More Common Than Obstructive Sleep Apnea

And both are far more common among ADHD sufferers.

Research up to 2011 conservatively estimated insomnia at 6-15% of the general population, while OSA was estimated at 2-4% (though higher in men and at older ages). It is recognized that both disorders can, but don't necessarily, co-occur.

Note that among ADHD populations, 75% were found to suffer from disordered sleep of some kind: ( https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0904093443.htm ), whereas "only" 20-30% suffer from Obstructive Sleep Apnea ( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21808754 ). The Science Daily article goes so far as to ask if ADHD is not really a sleep disorder.

Considering that we know ADHD is a disorder of SELF-regulation, and also the links that are piling up between sleep deprivation and heart disease, Type-2 diabetes, dementia, mental illness, even cancer, I'm surprised so few of us are putting a priority on figuring out how to get more and better sleep.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to 20thcenturyfox For This Useful Post:
Greyhound1 (05-11-19)
  #12  
Old 05-10-19, 01:15 AM
PI-ADHD 29 PI-ADHD 29 is online now
ADDvanced Member
 

Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: TURKEY
Posts: 184
Thanks: 45
Thanked 75 Times in 63 Posts
PI-ADHD 29 is on a distinguished road
Re: Non-apnea Sleep Disorders Are Far More Common Than Obstructive Sleep Apnea

Quote:
Originally Posted by 20thcenturyfox View Post
And both are far more common among ADHD sufferers.

Research up to 2011 conservatively estimated insomnia at 6-15% of the general population, while OSA was estimated at 2-4% (though higher in men and at older ages). It is recognized that both disorders can, but don't necessarily, co-occur.

Note that among ADHD populations, 75% were found to suffer from disordered sleep of some kind: ( https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0904093443.htm ), whereas "only" 20-30% suffer from Obstructive Sleep Apnea ( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21808754 ). The Science Daily article goes so far as to ask if ADHD is not really a sleep disorder.

Considering that we know ADHD is a disorder of SELF-regulation, and also the links that are piling up between sleep deprivation and heart disease, Type-2 diabetes, dementia, mental illness, even cancer, I'm surprised so few of us are putting a priority on figuring out how to get more and better sleep.
I think I've non-apnea sleep disorder. Because my sleep quality improved incredible when i was using ritalin. Also wellbutrin had improved my sleep quality.
__________________
Born in 1989. Treated for major depression and anxiety since 21 yo.
Tried almost all of SSRI's (none of them worked)
Predominantly inattentive adhd, diagnosed in 2018.
Started with ritalin (worked only for two weeks)
Also tried wellbutrin and strattera
Now: ritalin and medikinet
For about three years local corticosteroid pomades for atopic dermatitis.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-10-19, 12:28 PM
20thcenturyfox's Avatar
20thcenturyfox 20thcenturyfox is offline
Contributor
 

Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Canada
Posts: 380
Thanks: 1,292
Thanked 453 Times in 250 Posts
20thcenturyfox is a glorious beacon of light20thcenturyfox is a glorious beacon of light20thcenturyfox is a glorious beacon of light20thcenturyfox is a glorious beacon of light20thcenturyfox is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Non-apnea Sleep Disorders Are Far More Common Than Obstructive Sleep Apnea

Quote:
Originally Posted by PI-ADHD 29 View Post
I think I've non-apnea sleep disorder. Because my sleep quality improved incredible when i was using ritalin. Also wellbutrin had improved my sleep quality.
I noticed when you said that, and drew a similar conclusion.

(But still be alert for any feedback from other members of your household that they ever notice you snore, gasp, or stop breathing while you sleep. Obstructive sleep apnea is a potentially serious health condition you should not ignore.)

(In addition you could also have low-normal oxygen for other reasons, which could affect your sleep quality. If you have had blood tests done, look for things like O2 %, CO2%, or just pH. If your O2 or pH are low-normal, or your CO2 is high-normal, you might suspect lack of optimal oxygenation is part of your energy problem. And it could just be due to poor breathing habits...nothing specifically to do with sleep. It so happens I have the same problem (most likely due to chronic respiratory and thyroid problems, plus living at altitude above 1000m), but I still think I can work to improve my breathing/oxygen saturation.)

But so far I'm only hearing you complain about poor sleep. So that's insomnia.

Traditionally there are 5 types: acute, chronic, comorbid (such as obstructive sleep apnea), sleep onset (SOI), and sleep maintenance (SMI): https://www.healthline.com/health/ty...insomnia#types SOI is especially prevalent in ADHD, and again, I have the same problem. And because SOI is linked to about 15 different hormones, it appears there is a lot we can do about SOI from a lifestyle perspective.

More recently a Dutch group has proposed a different set of categories--which I just now discovered and I admit I don't yet understand, but maybe you will, so here it is: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/324210.php They say this will improve treatment response, so I hope to learn more about this in the future.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to 20thcenturyfox For This Useful Post:
PI-ADHD 29 (05-12-19)
  #14  
Old 05-10-19, 12:41 PM
20thcenturyfox's Avatar
20thcenturyfox 20thcenturyfox is offline
Contributor
 

Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Canada
Posts: 380
Thanks: 1,292
Thanked 453 Times in 250 Posts
20thcenturyfox is a glorious beacon of light20thcenturyfox is a glorious beacon of light20thcenturyfox is a glorious beacon of light20thcenturyfox is a glorious beacon of light20thcenturyfox is a glorious beacon of light
Dutch Research Re-classifying Subtypes of Insomnia

Darn...I guess you have to pay to gain access to the full text of the Blanken research: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...464-4/fulltext

So I still have no clue as to what they actually found, or how it can be used.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-10-19, 08:41 PM
excel excel is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: dover,de
Posts: 2,692
Thanks: 334
Thanked 1,124 Times in 674 Posts
excel is a splendid one to beholdexcel is a splendid one to beholdexcel is a splendid one to beholdexcel is a splendid one to beholdexcel is a splendid one to beholdexcel is a splendid one to beholdexcel is a splendid one to beholdexcel is a splendid one to behold
Re: to wake up more tired than before go to bed(unrefreshing sleep).

Quote:
Originally Posted by PI-ADHD 29 View Post
I don't much about sleep study. Is there any treatment or solution if i have sleep apnea?
Can i know if i have sleep apnea or not myself?
Is sleep apnea common in adhd? Is sleep apnea is the result or reason of adhd?
Thank you.
Cpap machine is used to treat sleep apnea. their is a surgery you can have done. losing weight can help.
__________________
Redskins Fan
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to excel For This Useful Post:
namazu (05-10-19)
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is On
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sleep Deprivation, the cause and confusion of medication Toxicity and side effects? InvitroCanibal Sleeping 0 03-12-13 12:28 AM
Does anybody else wake, turn off alarm clock, then sleep again for hours? darkbluesky General ADD Talk 45 08-26-12 08:11 AM
Aderrall Is Not Always Used To Stimulate And Wake You Up. I Use It As A Sleep Aid pie4fools Adderall 4 08-25-12 08:51 AM
More anxiety fodder: Sleep trouble can indicate bigger problems Andi ADD News 1 08-12-11 08:57 PM
A high from lack of sleep Tara Sleeping 6 03-04-04 08:46 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) 2003 - 2015 ADD Forums