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Old 04-07-19, 11:21 PM
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At what age do kids grasp the concept of attention ?

Any experience ?

And how do you work with a kid too young to get it ?

I assume therer's a tricky way to play with the kid to let him feel it, experience he's "more into things" ?

How do you do that ?



And by the way - maybe this should go into the scientific forum - Do dogs have ADD (they should, if mice can) and if so, can we apply the same tactic of therapy to dogs and small children ?
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Old 04-07-19, 11:34 PM
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Re: At what age do kids grasp the concept of attention ?

If one thinks about it, dogs do not have lack of attention, and indeed, it can be sometimes held and directed, whereas one will be driven to despair and drink attempting to do the same with cats. Yet, they have it too...observe a cat spying on a canary.

Cheers,
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Old 04-07-19, 11:43 PM
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Re: At what age do kids grasp the concept of attention ?

Kids have it too, from the start, so I wonder if your question isn't so much about presence as it is about direction once (if?) held.

Cheers,
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Old 04-08-19, 12:30 PM
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Re: At what age do kids grasp the concept of attention ?

With a young child you just need to know that they work in small chunks of
attention. Perhaps five minutes per year of age? If you expect more than they
are capable of giving, you'll both be frustrated and the child will likely develop
self esteem and self confidence issues.

There is a series of books by Kathy Hoopman including: All Dogs Have ADHD;
All Cats Have Asperger Syndrome; and All Birds Have Anxiety. Good books.
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Old 04-08-19, 11:12 PM
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Re: At what age do kids grasp the concept of attention ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aeon View Post
If one thinks about it, dogs do not have lack of attention, and indeed, it can be sometimes held and directed, whereas one will be driven to despair and drink attempting to do the same with cats. Yet, they have it too...observe a cat spying on a canary.

Cheers,
Ian
Lol, I've never seen a cat spying, but thx for the tip - I should look into dog trainings

Quote:
Originally Posted by aeon View Post
Kids have it too, from the start, so I wonder if your question isn't so much about presence as it is about direction once (if?) held.

Cheers,
Ian
You want me to be more precise than I intended

Let's ask differently: How to show someone - say a Chinese cause I don't speak it - that he can be less ADhD than he usually is ? I understand that children up to some point do not recognize what they miss due to the lack of "theory of mind"


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunacie View Post
With a young child you just need to know that they work in small chunks of
attention. Perhaps five minutes per year of age? If you expect more than they
are capable of giving, you'll both be frustrated and the child will likely develop
self esteem and self confidence issues.

There is a series of books by Kathy Hoopman including: All Dogs Have ADHD;
All Cats Have Asperger Syndrome; and All Birds Have Anxiety. Good books.
thx for the recommendation.

OK, I can give them smaller chunks, but I want them to "get" that they are capable of sustaining their attention for longer - how do I do that ?

I can't give them coffee or amph.

They feel anxiety cause they lack the proper attention span expected of them by the world - and that's the negative experience. How to show the positive one you get when you can suddenly do something, like when you're medicated ?
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Old 04-09-19, 12:07 PM
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Re: At what age do kids grasp the concept of attention ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by userguide View Post



thx for the recommendation.

OK, I can give them smaller chunks, but I want them to "get" that they are capable of sustaining their attention for longer - how do I do that ?

I can't give them coffee or amph.

They feel anxiety cause they lack the proper attention span expected of them by the world - and that's the negative experience. How to show the positive one you get when you can suddenly do something, like when you're medicated ?
Can you try something like Omega 3 fish oil supplements? Or CBD oil?
Some of us find the Omega 3 to be very helpful. I've used it for over a decade.

Anxiety is often a disorder all by itself. It can be comorbid with adhd, but not
actually caused by the adhd, although that can also be the case.

My oldest grandchild has adhd. My youngest grandchild has autism.
The both also have anxiety and depression and migraines. One has diabetes.
They have both taken (or still take) helpful meds for all those conditions.
They have both had (or still do) therapy. I would do whatever I could to help
them both.

The meds, or coffee, didn't "suddenly" let them do things that are a struggle
for kids with those conditions. They were or are much better with meds on
board, but they weren't suddenly able to do things without any effort. Just
able to use their efforts better.
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Old 04-10-19, 12:55 AM
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Re: At what age do kids grasp the concept of attention ?

OK, I agree.

My question is more of a theoretical curiosity than a practical case.
I don't intend to help a specific kid, I want to know when an aveage adhd kid will get what he suffers from.
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Old 04-10-19, 03:12 AM
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Re: At what age do kids grasp the concept of attention ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by userguide View Post
I want to know when an aveage adhd kid will get what he suffers from.
By most criteria and metrics, I wasn't an average kid.

That said, it took me going to college to know something was wrong, and another 20 years for a diagnosis and treatment.

Cheers,
Ian
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Old 04-10-19, 11:59 AM
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Re: At what age do kids grasp the concept of attention ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aeon View Post
By most criteria and metrics, I wasn't an average kid.

That said, it took me going to college to know something was wrong, and another 20 years for a diagnosis and treatment.

Cheers,
Ian
Probably about the same age for me. Looking back, there were signs before
that, but I didn't know quite what they meant. Things like not being accepted
by other kids my age. In high school having a friend who clearly was quite
different.

I was in my early 20's I think, when I started taking note of magazine articles
and tv talk shows that discussed things like bipolar. I thought "aha" but when
I went to the library and checked on bipolar I could see it didn't really fit me.
But I was sure there was something like that and I spent the next 30 years
having horrible anxiety and deathly depression before an online friend with
a daughter who had adhd to send me looking in the right direction.
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Old 04-11-19, 12:41 AM
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Re: At what age do kids grasp the concept of attention ?

Originally Posted by userguide
I want to know when an average adhd kid will get what he suffers from.

To be precise:

I don't mean when a kid is able to diagnose himself;

I mean at what age he can grasp the idea that his mental states are more or less persistent/stable ?
The concept of "rushing thoughts", "mental fog" ?

ADHD ppl get it either through medication, meditation or just by learnig from a website.

How to teach a 4 yo adhd that his thoughts are rushing too fast and he should meditate ?
How about 6 yo ? Is that possible ?
10 yo ?

where is the threshold of the ability to this adhd-specific introspection ?


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Old 04-11-19, 02:44 AM
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Re: At what age do kids grasp the concept of attention ?

Maybe once they enter kindergarten or first grade and interact with groups? I grew up in a very structured home (that's just how my parents functioned) so i had basic "routines" and also tons of playtime on my own, as an only child. and I remember being in even in preschool, wondering what the hell was going on, why was everyone all if the sudden doing some other activity, etc.
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Old 04-11-19, 11:49 AM
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Re: At what age do kids grasp the concept of attention ?

I think kids are the same as adults with ADHD. They can pay attention (for a fairly long time like an hour) but they can't wilfully direct their attention for verY long. Eg fuzzling could watch her favourite video for hours if I let her but if she isn't interested in something she won't and she can't focus on it for longer than maybe a minute.

I think the trick is to 1. not expect kids to pay attention just because you want them to and 2. Make sure it's something that is highly interesting for them if you do want them to pay attention.

If you are asking at what age kids can direct their attention I'm not sure. I guess it improves with age.
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Old 04-11-19, 11:53 AM
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Question Re: At what age do kids grasp the concept of attention ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by userguide View Post
Originally Posted by userguide
I want to know when an average adhd kid will get what he suffers from.

To be precise:

I don't mean when a kid is able to diagnose himself;

I mean at what age he can grasp the idea that his mental states are more or less persistent/stable ?
The concept of "rushing thoughts", "mental fog" ?

ADHD ppl get it either through medication, meditation or just by learnig from a website.

How to teach a 4 yo adhd that his thoughts are rushing too fast and he should meditate ?
How about 6 yo ? Is that possible ?
10 yo ?

where is the threshold of the ability to this adhd-specific introspection ?


AHH ok. I'm not sure. I didn't realise I was abnormally bad at paying attention till maybe my thirties. Till then I just thought I was too demotivated or just stupid.

You are right. It requires theory of mind but more than that as it requires you to know something about someone else that is not a fact, not something that can easily be quantified and not something that the other person is probably aware of either. It requires either a lot of situation where both you and the other person directly compare how well they paid attention or rather how well they think they paid attention or some sort of repeated direct test.
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Old 04-13-19, 05:29 AM
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Re: At what age do kids grasp the concept of attention ?

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AHH ok. I'm not sure. I didn't realise I was abnormally bad at paying attention till maybe my thirties. Till then I just thought I was too demotivated or just stupid.

You are right. It requires theory of mind but more than that as it requires you to know something about someone else that is not a fact, not something that can easily be quantified and not something that the other person is probably aware of either. It requires either a lot of situation where both you and the other person directly compare how well they paid attention or rather how well they think they paid attention or some sort of repeated direct test.
That's why I am thinking of a trick, a play that could make the child notice or realize he is in a different cognitive state and so we can explain it building on that xperience.

They say learning chess helps ppl apply their intellect more efficiently - at least that's what the players say - so let's think of a simplified chess easy enough for kids (or dogs ) to enjoy and realize often gratiication. Would that help ?


I wonder if biofeedback works this way - I've read it's effective in improing on some symptoms, but don't know whether it is due to a mechanistic changes (like when you just grow a bigger muscle without any mental input),

or due to the not isolated factor of the attention given to the child (that was the assumption in one study I have read),

or maybe - and that's what I hope for - the fact that the kid gains an extra dimension in his conscious self-reflection and is capable of applying that again in future.
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Old 04-13-19, 09:00 AM
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Re: At what age do kids grasp the concept of attention ?

I am curious as to why you feel you need to make a 4 year old pay better attention?
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