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-   -   to wake up more tired than before go to bed(unrefreshing sleep). (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194907)

PI-ADHD 29 04-18-19 10:37 AM

to wake up more tired than before go to bed(unrefreshing sleep).
 
I feel too tired almost every time. When i wake up i feel as i didn't sleep. Even if i sleep 7-8 hours i feel more tired than night. I've never felt vigorous, fresh awakening in all my life. The only exception of this was when i was using ritalin. When i was using ritalin i could awake very energetic even with only 2-3 hours of sleep.
Do you have any advice? What can i do without medicine?

sarahsweets 04-18-19 11:10 AM

Re: to wake up more tired than before go to bed(unrefreshing sleep).
 
You should consider a sleep study.

PI-ADHD 29 04-19-19 09:08 AM

Re: to wake up more tired than before go to bed(unrefreshing sleep).
 
I think unrefreshing sleep is common in adhd, especially in inattentive adhd. Isn't there anyone like me?

Daniel1970 04-19-19 09:11 AM

Re: to wake up more tired than before go to bed(unrefreshing sleep).
 
Do a sleep study. You probably have sleep apnea.

PI-ADHD 29 04-19-19 10:00 AM

Re: to wake up more tired than before go to bed(unrefreshing sleep).
 
I don't much about sleep study. Is there any treatment or solution if i have sleep apnea?
Can i know if i have sleep apnea or not myself?
Is sleep apnea common in adhd? Is sleep apnea is the result or reason of adhd?
Thank you.

Lunacie 04-19-19 11:19 AM

Re: to wake up more tired than before go to bed(unrefreshing sleep).
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PI-ADHD 29 (Post 2017302)
I don't much about sleep study. Is there any treatment or solution if i have sleep apnea?
Can i know if i have sleep apnea or not myself?
Is sleep apnea common in adhd? Is sleep apnea is the result or reason of adhd?
Thank you.

Treatment would depend on whether you have mild, moderate or serious sleep
apnea. I don't know if running a tape recorder while sleeping would really tell
you when you stop breathing (and then gasp for air) or not. More reliable would
be a sleep study. This can be done at home wearing a sleep monitor.

Treatment for anything more than mild sleep apnea would be a c-pap or bi-pap
machine. (continuous positive air pressure or bi-level continuous air pressure).

Quote:

Mild Sleep Apnea treatment might include:

*Nasal Decongestants: This method could help Sleep Apnea that is being caused by allergic rhinitis.
*Oral Appliances: These tools work well as a first line treatment for mild cases of Sleep Apnea. You would wear this kind of appliance, which is similar to a sports or orthodontic mouth appliance, in your mouth while you sleep. The device would temporarily move your jaw slightly to minimize airway collapse.
*Surgery: This solution could improve airflow through the nose to help breathing.
*Positional Therapy: This technique helps you if your Sleep Apnea is dependent on sleeping on your back in a supine position. This therapy helps you stay on your sides while sleeping, and can include using tools that prevent rolling onto your back.
*Weight Loss: This lifestyle change may help if you’re included in the majority of people with OSA who are overweight or obese.
*Continuous Positive Airway Pressure (CPAP): While you might try other treatment methods first, CPAP machines are also used for mild Sleep Apnea. With CPAP, AHI improvements may be made.

PI-ADHD 29 04-19-19 02:31 PM

Re: to wake up more tired than before go to bed(unrefreshing sleep).
 
First of all in my previous post i meant; I don't (know) much about sleep study. My inattentiveness:)
When i was 16 years old i had an operation of tonsils and nose concha. Also my nose bone is curved. So i may have sleep apnea.
But as i said in my previous post, ritalin helped me a lot. Normally i need at least 7-8 hours of sleep but with ritalin only 2-3 hours was enough. I could wake up refreshed for the first time of life, it was unbelievable. Isn't that a contradiction?
Can ritalin help for sleep apnea?

Greyhound1 04-19-19 08:48 PM

Re: to wake up more tired than before go to bed(unrefreshing sleep).
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PI-ADHD 29 (Post 2017297)
I think unrefreshing sleep is common in adhd, especially in inattentive adhd. Isn't there anyone like me?

I’m not sure it’s common with ADHD but more common than for those without ADHD. I’m like you, I wake up much more tired and out of it than when I went to bed. I suspect we as the others have mentioned have a sleeping disorder of some type. I’ve ruled out sleep apnea and believe mine could be Delayed Sleep phase disorder. I feel like, I wake up for some reason during my deep REM sleep. I feel my best physically and mentally at night as well.

It would take me half to all day just to finally feel awake. About a year ago, I started getting up 1 hour before I want or need to be up and take my adderall. I quickly go soundly back to sleep and wake up an hour later feeling amazingly more rested and much more awake and alert. It’s been a game changer for me. I can be a morning person even though I don’t want to be one.:)

excel 04-19-19 10:39 PM

Re: to wake up more tired than before go to bed(unrefreshing sleep).
 
Sleep apnea isn't connected to add. Losing weight and getting your allergies under control can help to eliminate sleep apnea

PI-ADHD 29 04-20-19 03:58 AM

Re: to wake up more tired than before go to bed(unrefreshing sleep).
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by excel (Post 2017315)
Sleep apnea isn't connected to add. Losing weight and getting your allergies under control can help to eliminate sleep apnea

Yes I have allergies but i'm 64 kg(141 lbs), 178 cm (5 feet and 10 inch).

20thcenturyfox 05-08-19 12:28 PM

Non-apnea Sleep Disorders Are Far More Common Than Obstructive Sleep Apnea
 
And both are far more common among ADHD sufferers.

Research up to 2011 conservatively estimated insomnia at 6-15% of the general population, while OSA was estimated at 2-4% (though higher in men and at older ages). It is recognized that both disorders can, but don't necessarily, co-occur.

Note that among ADHD populations, 75% were found to suffer from disordered sleep of some kind: ( https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0904093443.htm ), whereas "only" 20-30% suffer from Obstructive Sleep Apnea ( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21808754 ). The Science Daily article goes so far as to ask if ADHD is not really a sleep disorder.

Considering that we know ADHD is a disorder of SELF-regulation, and also the links that are piling up between sleep deprivation and heart disease, Type-2 diabetes, dementia, mental illness, even cancer, I'm surprised so few of us are putting a priority on figuring out how to get more and better sleep.

PI-ADHD 29 05-10-19 01:15 AM

Re: Non-apnea Sleep Disorders Are Far More Common Than Obstructive Sleep Apnea
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 20thcenturyfox (Post 2017733)
And both are far more common among ADHD sufferers.

Research up to 2011 conservatively estimated insomnia at 6-15% of the general population, while OSA was estimated at 2-4% (though higher in men and at older ages). It is recognized that both disorders can, but don't necessarily, co-occur.

Note that among ADHD populations, 75% were found to suffer from disordered sleep of some kind: ( https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0904093443.htm ), whereas "only" 20-30% suffer from Obstructive Sleep Apnea ( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21808754 ). The Science Daily article goes so far as to ask if ADHD is not really a sleep disorder.

Considering that we know ADHD is a disorder of SELF-regulation, and also the links that are piling up between sleep deprivation and heart disease, Type-2 diabetes, dementia, mental illness, even cancer, I'm surprised so few of us are putting a priority on figuring out how to get more and better sleep.

I think I've non-apnea sleep disorder. Because my sleep quality improved incredible when i was using ritalin. Also wellbutrin had improved my sleep quality.

20thcenturyfox 05-10-19 12:28 PM

Re: Non-apnea Sleep Disorders Are Far More Common Than Obstructive Sleep Apnea
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PI-ADHD 29 (Post 2017790)
I think I've non-apnea sleep disorder. Because my sleep quality improved incredible when i was using ritalin. Also wellbutrin had improved my sleep quality.

I noticed when you said that, and drew a similar conclusion.

(But still be alert for any feedback from other members of your household that they ever notice you snore, gasp, or stop breathing while you sleep. Obstructive sleep apnea is a potentially serious health condition you should not ignore.)

(In addition you could also have low-normal oxygen for other reasons, which could affect your sleep quality. If you have had blood tests done, look for things like O2 %, CO2%, or just pH. If your O2 or pH are low-normal, or your CO2 is high-normal, you might suspect lack of optimal oxygenation is part of your energy problem. And it could just be due to poor breathing habits...nothing specifically to do with sleep. It so happens I have the same problem (most likely due to chronic respiratory and thyroid problems, plus living at altitude above 1000m), but I still think I can work to improve my breathing/oxygen saturation.)

But so far I'm only hearing you complain about poor sleep. So that's insomnia.

Traditionally there are 5 types: acute, chronic, comorbid (such as obstructive sleep apnea), sleep onset (SOI), and sleep maintenance (SMI): https://www.healthline.com/health/ty...insomnia#types SOI is especially prevalent in ADHD, and again, I have the same problem. And because SOI is linked to about 15 different hormones, it appears there is a lot we can do about SOI from a lifestyle perspective.

More recently a Dutch group has proposed a different set of categories--which I just now discovered and I admit I don't yet understand, but maybe you will, so here it is: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/324210.php They say this will improve treatment response, so I hope to learn more about this in the future.

20thcenturyfox 05-10-19 12:41 PM

Dutch Research Re-classifying Subtypes of Insomnia
 
Darn...I guess you have to pay to gain access to the full text of the Blanken research: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...464-4/fulltext

So I still have no clue as to what they actually found, or how it can be used.

excel 05-10-19 08:41 PM

Re: to wake up more tired than before go to bed(unrefreshing sleep).
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PI-ADHD 29 (Post 2017302)
I don't much about sleep study. Is there any treatment or solution if i have sleep apnea?
Can i know if i have sleep apnea or not myself?
Is sleep apnea common in adhd? Is sleep apnea is the result or reason of adhd?
Thank you.

Cpap machine is used to treat sleep apnea. their is a surgery you can have done. losing weight can help.


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